Talk:Key:medical system:*

Ambiguity of this key

As noted in Talk:Key:medical_system:western, those values are quite ambiguous and confusing. Discussion at https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/problematic-key-medical-system-western/98119 indicates one should probably use unambiguous (and more detailed) healthcare:speciality=* instead. --mnalis (talk) 14:29, 9 June 2023 (UTC) : healthcare:speciality=* is no replacement for medical_system:*=yes, as it doesn't describe the medical system used.

You can do acupuncture in Germany, e.g. as an common additional qualification for “western” physicians, where you learn something about endorphins (yes, no Chinese diagnostics), or as a regular physician for the Chinese medical system, who had learned it at a Chinese university. Some regular Chinese-system physicians then come to Germany and as we have this ancient law from February 1939 , which is still present, called “Heilpraktikergesetz”, which allows doing limited medical things such as e.g. vaccinations alongside many obscure “therapies” of “alternative” medicine. So such a Chinese physician only needs this regulatory attestation, that you don't do any harm to the people ("Ausübung der Heilkunde ohne Bestallung" means that you can do healthcare without permission) and can open an office for acupuncture and herbal medicine. To make it even a bit harder, there are also weekend courses of traditional Chinese medicine, for people who want to offer services under this law. So there is a need to describe, in which medical system the formal qualification is founded. As I see no ambiguity for now, I will remove the banner, as the wording is discussed somewhere else. Fabi2 (talk) 23:13, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree that you can - but the fact that "eastern" medicine (e.g. acupuncture) may be legally practiced by "western" (e.g. German) physicians, does not make that "eastern" medicine become "western". The name of the tag prefix comes from roots of the "western/easterm medicine" (i.e. etymologically) and not from where it is nowdays practiced. If it were otherwise (as you seem to suggest), those whole of this prefix should be deprecated as completely useless (and even more ambiguous). So let's leave the Questioned template on, until there is agreement in that forum thread (as well as in this talk page and Talk:Key:medical_system:western). Also note that there are at least two different reasons why the this proposed tag prefix is "questionable, contentious or controversial information", not only one, so both should be cleared up. One contested is the very definition of the key prefix (as in your comment above!) which I tried to explain above, and other is about the ambiguity of the values. E.g. what exactly does medical_system:western=* or medical_system:eastern=* cover, and what they do not? Does "western" include leeches/homeopathy/herbs/vaccines/chiropractic/meditation/placebo/... ? Does "eastern" include cupping/massage/reiki/tai chi/tiger bones/deer penis/Ziheche/tteum/Electroacupuncture/...? --mnalis (talk) 21:28, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

What have your complaints about "eastern"/"western" to do with the prefix page of medical_system:*=yes/no? --Fabi2 (talk) 02:24, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

because the wiki page literally specifies medical_system:western=yes/no? Also, it specifies other tags like medical_system:chinese=yes/no too for example, and you've not addressed complains from that community thread or this talk page (e.g. does giving dried (or liquefied Bāoyīshuǐ) human placenta as a drug (Zi He Che) qualifies for medical_system:chinese=yes)? How about using deer penis? Many people might identify "Chinese medical system" just with its westernly-accepted incarnations (like acupuncture or shiatsu); thus is many cases using such a wide term is not only too general, but is in fact highly misleading to average mapper. I've included pro-explanations (the best I understood them) now to be more unbiased, but feel free to add extra information to the page (instead of removing information because you personally disagree). Just because some people think there is no better alternative so this prefix is useful (even if we have healthcare:speciality=*), that does not mean that the disadvantages (as well as advantages!) of using some it should not be documented! Both advantages and disadvantages should be documented, even (and especially!) if one disagrees with them. So please do not remove Questioned template, unless both sides in that linked community discussion actually reaches a point where everybody agrees on definitions and wiki page is changed accordingly -- instead, strive to document both the advantages and disadvantages of using this key. That way, each mapper can weigh the pros&cons and reach their own conclusion which tags to use. --mnalis (talk) 14:07, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

alternative medicine

It seems to be implied that if something is Traditional (e.g. Chinese) Medicine, than it is not alternative medicine? (i.e. "...then the object falls under alternative medicine"). However, commonly accepted definition of "alternative medicine" seems to be "alternative to western medicine", not "alternative to any traditional medicine". E.g. Traditional Chinese medicine: "Traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) is an alternative medical practice drawn from traditional medicine in China".

Could it be better clarified? --mnalis (talk) 14:15, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

The wrong, overlooked conclusion, that if it not fall into the affected medical system, that then fall into alternative medicine (it was meant for the common western medical system, but does not apply in general) was just wrong and has been corrected now. --Fabi2 (talk) 01:37, 2 May 2024 (UTC)