Talk:Indonesian Tagging Guidelines

Updating the guidelines?

These Indonesian Tagging Guidelines are a little out of date. But before updating them, I would like to discuss some changes. Is there a good forum or list where we can discuss this as an Indonesian mapping community?

Mainly I would like to clarify how the highway tags can be used in places like Kalimantan, Papua, NTT where the roads rarely have a sign that tells you the classification. --Jeisenbe (talk) 13:53, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Wrong guideline for tagging narrow residential roads ("gang" in Indonesian) as "Living Street"

In Indonesia tagging guidelines a “gang” is defined as:

“A small road in a residential area. The width of the road is between 1.5 - 2 meters. Can be passed by 1 car at low speed. For alleys that can only be passed by motorbikes (< 1.5 meters) please use Path”. The tag to be used is “Living street”.

However, the generic tagging guidelines in Wiki, define "Living Street" as:

“The highway=living_street tag is used to tag living streets or other implementations of shared space. These type of roads have lower speed limits, and special traffic and parking rules compared to streets tagged using residential. A general feature of this type of road is, that the legislation either grants pedestrians the right of way over or at equal rights to other road users.”

I believe a “gang” in Indonesia does not fall under this category, it is just a very narrow residential road typically in the old part of town before cars were introduced, more often than not too narrow for cars. A living street has nothing do it with its width – the category is used for residential streets where legislation limits the use of motorized traffic to make the street more “livable” for the residents.

If you look up the tag service: alley (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Dalley), the images as examples resemble a lot more what a “gang” in Indonesia looks like. The definition says:

“An alley or alleyway is a narrow service road usually located between properties to provide access things such as back gardens, rear entrances, fire exits, and storage areas. Alleys are normally found in urban areas and often run between the rear sides of buildings such as houses, and commercial premises.”

I propose to change the tagging guideline accordingly within the next month - unless I get some new input.

--Bernardo (talk) 10:02, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

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The problem with different definition is basically no such rules about roads are defined in Indonesian law. So I propose based on mixing witdh limit and purposes:

- Residential: use current definition. Connecting between communities, housing complexes, anything that common people houses usually lives. BUT have two lanes minimum, cars can pass each other without reducing speed too much or can be saparated by median, motorcycle can ride alongside of car within one lane. For Example: Jalan Tata Surya at Metro area, Bandung

- Living Street: use modified _western_ definition, plus OSM guide plus local definition As per OSM guide, we can use the key definition of "shared use". Means. the street would be narrower than residential, but not as narrow as Gang/Alley. Hence: Have a maximum two lane, cars cannot passed each other without reducing speed or one to complete stop, motorcycle cannot ride alongside cars if its only one lane, no sidewalk, so pedestrian aso use same lane. For Example: Jalan Yupiter III and IV at Margahayu Raya BArat, Bandung

- Service/Alley: use OSM guide with local definition, Maximum one lane but primarily designed for motorcycle + pedestrian, cars cannot passed each other at all, motorcycle cannot ride alongside of cars, pedestrian use same lane, no sidewalk. For example: Middle part of Jalan Gagak, at Citarum, Bandung

- Footway: Use OSM guide with local definition. Designed primarily for pedestrian. Cannot be entered by car. Motorcycle may passed each other with reduced speed.

That's the definition i think will work for Indonesian Road Types.

Ajyto (talk) 17:54, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Ajyto

thanks for your input. I am glad that someone is interested in updating the Indonesian Tagging Guidelines. But I don't think that we can re-define the OSM tags only for Indonesia, instead we should find OSM equivalents for Indonesian features.

- Residential: Regardless whether one lane or two.

- Living Street: "They are residential streets where pedestrians have legal priority over cars, speeds are kept very low and where children are allowed to play on the street." These do not exist in Indonesian, should therefore not be used.

- Service/Alley: I agree what your wrote.

- Footway: What you describe is not a footway, but a path. Too narrow for cars, but used by motorbikes and pedestrians. In residential areas, the translation in Indonesian is "gang".
--Bernardo (talk) 10:02, 2 November 2022 (UTC)