Talk:Key:circuits
Discussion on tagging e-mail list
See the January 2013 archive at http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2013-January/thread.html and http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2013-January/012668.html for the initiating post. --Ceyockey 13:52, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Bipolar HVDC
Would these been considered as two circuits? I've noticed some bipolar lines tagged as such, even if there are just two cables. Gazer75 (talk) 22:07, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
- Bipolar HVDC needs two cables. Then 2 cables <=> circuits=1. 4 cables <=> circuits=2 and so on Fanfouer (talk) 18:24, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
- Then Skagerak 1-4 is essentially 2 circuits? They are 4 separate lines, and converters, with 1-2 and 3-4 using eachother for return. From what I understand a bipolar HVDC line/system can work at half capacity if one converter is down. Gazer75 (talk) 16:52, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- My understanding of this page is Skagerak 1-2 is a single bipolar system (2 cables=1 circuit) and Skagerak 3 is monopolar (1 cable = 1 circuit). Skagerak 4 is bipolar it seems. Then there are 5 cables for 3 circuits. Fanfouer (talk) 21:05, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- Skagerak 3-4 are both bipolar using eachother for return. Back when SK3 was built 1+2 was changed to monopoloar with 3 as return and vice versa. When 4 was built 1+2 changed back. ABB have a page on the whole thing here. Thing is AFAIK if SK3 or SK4 / SK1 or SK2 is down it will still operate at half capacity as long as the cables are ok, thus technically being a circuit? Gazer75 (talk) 22:06, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- My understanding of this page is Skagerak 1-2 is a single bipolar system (2 cables=1 circuit) and Skagerak 3 is monopolar (1 cable = 1 circuit). Skagerak 4 is bipolar it seems. Then there are 5 cables for 3 circuits. Fanfouer (talk) 21:05, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
- Then Skagerak 1-4 is essentially 2 circuits? They are 4 separate lines, and converters, with 1-2 and 3-4 using eachother for return. From what I understand a bipolar HVDC line/system can work at half capacity if one converter is down. Gazer75 (talk) 16:52, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Deduction from cables=*
I prefer to open discussion about this section prior to integrate it to the How to map chapter
To me, the point isn't to encourage people to deduce circuits=* from cables=* but to carefully be helped by cables=* and always challenge what they find out.
It's way better to state number of circuits depends on how may bays are connected in the ending substations.
- circuits=1 with 3 conductors, 1 circuit can be deduced. This is the standard and is often not specified.
- => Not a standard but only true on 3-phases AC networks.
- circuits=2 with 6 conductors, 2 circuits can be deduced.
- => Why not 3 circuits with 2 phases for traction or 2 circuits (one with neutral conductor and a second for traction or HVDC)?
- circuits=2 with 4 conductors for traction current (frequency 16,7 Hz) 2 circuits can be deduced.
- => It can also be a 3 phases AC line with neutral conductor
Different voltages are also possible on the high-voltage line (example).
- => So many possibilities can exist and it would often lead to mistakes to deduce anything from cables=12.
Finally, we'd better encouraging people to look at the base of towers to look at plates or labels since they often indicate how many different lines share the same tower, wouldn't you? Fanfouer (talk) 13:13, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- There are so many combinations and variables that it is impossible to look at number of lines/phases. I've seen regular 3 phase with 1 reserve, so 4 cables. This could be mistakenly identified as two single phase circuits. There can also be combination of 3 phase and single phase on same towers. Like 8 could be two 3-phase and one single phase traction. I've seen plenty of lines that appear to be 2x3 so 2 circuits, but are bonded at one or both ends/substations to form a single circuit. Gazer75 (talk) 15:08, 3 October 2022 (UTC)