Proposal talk:Marketplace

Archiev

Tags

amenity=marketplace

I suggest that this be changed to

landuse=market

and then we can have:

market=pork

market=fish

etc

other ways to tag

This is a possible scheme to tag bigger markets.

• amenity=marketplace + name=* as a node (makes searching easier).
• landuse=market as an area
• building=yes if the marketplace is inside a building
• highway=pedestrian or highway=temporary_road car=no bike=no to tag the walks between the stalls:

Rationale

It could be a useful tag to draw ethnic maps, or even if we want to point out shops and retailers.

Rationale for changing marketplace to market: In India (and I think in most of Asia) every town has one or more markets. Generally markets are areas where there are groups of shops selling the same item. So we have a fish market, beef market, flower market, marble/granite market etc. There are also larger markets which have sections devoted to groups of shops which sell the same item. This is also called bazaar or souk. There are both permanent markets with regular buildings and weekly/monthly markets which are usually in the open air.

So we tag the general area using landuse=market, and each section like market=flowers. If necessary the shops can be also tagged with a shop tag.

Comments

What's an ethic map? --Hawke 22:04, 11 June 2007 (BST)

I guess he meant an "ethnic" map ;-) ---Hakan 09:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

In many countries they have open-air markets once a week - would be nice to indicate it with day=friday --katpatuka 08:55, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Not only once-a-week markets. What about fresh meat, fruits and fish markets? How do we tag them? They are quite different from supermarkets. ---Jldominguez 20:53, 15 Mayo 2008 (UTC)

I think that's a sensible proposition. My only problem with it would be the use of the "landuse" key which is generally used for really large areas like forests, residential suburbs, etc. I guess it should be closer to "amenity" than "landuse". --Karouf 12:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

This proposal sounds useful to me, though I'd prefer something like amenity=market to any use of landuse=*. Assume they're never amenity=<something-else>? What about shop=market, applied to an area, possibly with the usual shop=$PRODUCT_OR_TYPE applied to nodes or areas within it? In .uk, we have regular markets every few days to every week or fortnight, often in a civic marketplace, but also covered markets which are open every day but which contain small stalls selling different goods. --achadwick 15:20, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Please, please, please do not further clutter the logical landuse key with further physical uses. --Thomas Wood 17:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

shop=market feels better to me, but also jars my thoughts with conflicts (a bit) having shop nodes/areas inside it, split up into individual/group and them all being shop=something. Are markets an amenity? Im not sure. Any other suggestions? Agree with Thomas Wood about landuse tag cluttering, but it does fit nicely :) PS: Katpatuka - isnt the opening_hours tag more general and better matching than day=<a day> and may already have render code written for it - allows more or less info to be specified as wished and multiple days. --Breezer 00:54, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

That there isn't a tag for markets yet, is perhaps because of the mention of market under highway=pedestrian/area=yes here. Do we need another way of tagging, or is the existing one OK? --EdLoach 16:51, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

highway=pedestrian + area=yes doesn't say if trade is allowed there, it might be regulated that such is prohibited in the area? But I see no problem in combining these with amenity=marketplace where this applies. --Skippern 17:07, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

We definitely need a tag for this kind of market. The "highway=pedestrian" tag does not seem appropriate for markets that are beside a road, in open areas, or in market buildings. And it also misses the important information: that this is a market. I think that amenity=marketplace + area=yes or building=yes combined with descriptive tags for fish, flowers, vegetables, etc. would probably work well. --xixi 19:09, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Isn't an indoor market only something like a mall or a supermarket? Tags describing the commodities is probably a good idea, such information can easily be searchable and people might want to search for markets selling fish as an example. I do not want to bind these additional keys to the proposal, but it sounds like a good idea. --Skippern 19:35, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Not really. Examples include the local one I'm familiar with as well as loads of others. The pattern is basically lightly-constructed stalls within a big open, roofed and vaulted space. Individual stallholders pay rent to the operators of the market, but the degree of permanence of the stalls varies from site to site. They're distinct from even early shopping arcades/malls, and probably fit within the scope of this proposal. --achadwick 15:38, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the input, I have adjusted the proposal to allow for a roofed market as well. --Skippern 16:24, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the proposal, but we need to add the option of tagging a section of a way as Marketplace. Markets often occur in a market square or area, but it is also globally common for stretches of road to be regularly closed to traffic and used as a Market (eg Weekly, Monthly). This would require the splitting of a section of a way so that the amenity=marketplace tag could be added to a section of way. This can be seen on the Multimap website, link - http://www.multimap.com/s/eRUCbNzc On this map the section of roads that are used as markets have a brown line running through them. This type of rendering seem a good solution. As these sections of roads are closed when the market is running, the fact that a length of road is also market and the time of the market, is very useful. This information is vital to successful routing applications. --Jamicu 13:37, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Way added to the proposal. --Skippern 14:02, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Time, name

This needs a time tag (opening_hours=* syntax?) since markets usually are held once a week here (or sometimes twice a week). It could then also use a name tag since some well-known markets have specific names as well (and it could well be that the one on Saturday has a different name than the one on Sunday, even though they're on the same location). --Eimai 17:28, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, good suggestions, putting them in. --Skippern 17:33, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Market vs Marketplace

Is there are clear distinction between markets and marketplaces (in people's intuitive understanding of English)? For me, marketplaces are more likely to be outdoor, temporary places, but could equally be a covered indoor market. What would amenity=market be used for - permanent market buildings only? Frankie Roberto 00:02, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

amenity=market is not listed on the page with all the other available amenities. There are no indications that this tag have been used, and I do not have access to check tagwatch, so I cannot tell you how many times it have been used. For me that tag does not exist until otherwise proved. --Skippern 11:09, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying that it exists, I'm just wondering whether we need amenity=market as well, or instead of amenity=marketplace. Tagwatch currently lists 44 instances of amenity=market, 47 instances of amenity=marketplace and 5 instances of amenity=market_place. See [1] Frankie Roberto 12:10, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Would you define amenity=market different than amenity=marketplace? amenity=market_place is definitely a typo. --Skippern 12:43, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

For me, marketplace refers to an outdoor area where market stalls are set up. A market on the other hand might refer to either that market (when it's operating) or a permanent structure under which a market regularly happens (eg Borough Market). Frankie Roberto 10:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

So your definition is close to what I would use in Portuguese (feira = an outdoor area with stalls where trade goes on; and marcado = an indoor area where trade goes on, which not necessary contains shops), in Norwegian I would use the same word for both locations (marked) though the outdoor type can be referred to with various slang expressions which identify what type of trade goes on. I think we should have one tag for this as they are so similar in structure. --Skippern 11:08, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Rendering

Here's a try at an icon. Feel free to enhance and mock my poor drawing ability ;) Pov 23:10, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

SVG (Inkscape)

Good suggestion, I have absolutely no skills in Inkscape (or graphics for that matter), so any suggestions are welcome. --Skippern 11:51, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm actually enjoying inkscape, and I reworked the original image, first so that it's not cropped halfway, and secondly so that it's both more colorful and icon-sized. As for the background color, well I needed something different than white for working and forgot to remove it. I can easily change it because I'm not convinced the color I randomly picked is a good idea. Pov 22:04, 19 February 2009 (UTC)