Proposal talk:Pickup points

Relation to parcel pickup stations

Resolved: See Proposal:Pickup points#Parcel lockers. --Push-f (talk) 15:40, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Is it supposed to replace also packstations? (automated pickup points of parcels) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 00:26, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

No, this proposal is not supposed to change anything about amenity=parcel_locker. --Push-f (talk) 06:51, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Then ideally name would be less generic and not use name that includes also them Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:23, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree that the initially suggested pickup=* would have been confusing in regards to other pickup facilities and have therefore updated the proposal to introduce amenity=pickup_point instead. --Push-f (talk) 10:42, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

As it turns out Amazon Lockers are currently tagged as amenity=parcel_locker. I have updated the proposal that they should be tagged with amenity=pickup_point instead (see the Reasoning section for the rationale). --Push-f (talk) 13:20, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

It's not clear to me. There are parcel lockers from AliExpress.com brand - should they remain amenity=parcel_locker as I can buy from multiple vendors there, or should be changed as only way to use them is to buy from single website? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kubahaha (talk • contribs)

Thanks, good question. I updated the proposal to clarify that amenity=pickup_point is for a specific retailer or marketplace. Since AliExpress is a specific marketplace, the new tag would also apply to parcel lockers for AliExpress if all you can do there is pick up products bought from AliExpress. Although looking at [1] I noticed that some AliExpress lockers are tagged with parcel_mail_in=yes ... which would mean they are more than pickup points. I assume that these should rather be tagged with parcel_mail_in=return_only, can you confirm? --Push-f (talk) 22:41, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

On a related note I just noticed that some Amazon Lockers can also be used to return parcels.[2] And this is apparently currently tagged with parcel_mail_in=returns_only. --Push-f (talk) 22:41, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Oh well and apparently there is Instabox which provides parcel lockers that may be used by multiple retailers ... and also allows parcels to be returned. --Push-f (talk) 22:55, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Interesting, yesterday I found that returns are not possible - but it was on amazon Germany, so it may differ between regions. A pickup point allowing to hand in parcels? That seems odd/contradicting from the wording to me, maybe native speakers find something better suiting in direction "handover point". --Schoschi (talk) 23:24, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

I think returning is only possible at "Amazon Hub Lockers" while "Amazon Lockers" only support pickup. I don't see any problem with amenity=pickup_point + return_parcels=yes: the primary tag describes the primary purpose, the secondary tag describes the secondary purpose (just like e.g. shop=hardware + service:bicycle:repair=yes). --Push-f (talk) 00:26, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Distinction of shop and pickup point

Resolved: See Proposal:Pickup_points#Distinction_of_shop_and_pickup_point. --Push-f (talk) 15:40, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

"A pickup location is neither a shop (because you cannot buy anything there)" - note that in many (often for legal reasons) you can buy something from limited supply Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 00:27, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Interesting, can you give some concrete examples? At least for IKEA and Decathlon I think the pickup points really only serve as such. If the supply is extremely limited and only exists for some legal alibi, I think it makes sense to tag the primary purpose as a pickup location (as opposed to a shop), because adding shop=* would be bound to disappoint people looking for an actual proper shop. --Push-f (talk) 06:51, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

https://bonito.pl/ pickup points tend to have books you can buy in place. Not sure how much it is about decoration, advertisement, supplemental income and legal fiction. But that was just several books in location which I used Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:23, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Are these pickup points just Bonito stores or are they other businesses akin to post_office=post_partner? --Push-f (talk) 10:42, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Branded as Bonito, offering pickup as primary service. I can take some photos if that would be useful. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:36, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Ok interesting. I guess the question is how many books they have in store and how many books you need to have in store to qualify as a shop=books. --Push-f (talk) 11:44, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

The photos with title "Punkt Bonito" in https://bonito.pl/o-nas do not create the impression the location has primary use as pickup point, but it looks like any small book shop – and it is pretty usual that a shop/amenity allows to reserve some product by phone/internet/vist and later pick it up at the own shop/amenity, e.g. virtually all restaurants with take away allow so, most pharmacies, many clothes shops,... I do not really want us to tag all of these as amenity=pickup_point, do you? If yes, amenity is no suitable key because we need it for e.g. amenity=restraurant. Oh, and does Bonito allow everybody to spontaneously walk in, pick any book and buy it (so it serves like a usual shop), or is entrance only permitted for people having an order/reservation (so it is only for picking up but not a shop)?--Schoschi (talk) 12:18, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

It is possible that they have varied range of places from full scale bookstore with pickup point to pickup point + decoration. I used one few years ago that had less than 25 books in total for direct sale. Likely they also used for marketing materials something looking properly (even if that is not representative and/or shut down) rather than miserable pickup point. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 13:08, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

See say this (note that books on walls behind desk are all waiting for pick up and are not for sale) - some books available for sale are still there Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 13:10, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

I would say that if a place only has 20 different books available for purchase that doesn't really constitute a shop=book. So I'd rather tag it with amenity=pickup_point + products=books + brand=Bonito. If on the other hand there is a good amount of books available to browse/purchase, I'd tag it with shop=book + brand=Bonito (+ perhaps click_and_collect=yes ... although that could be implied by brand=Bonito). --Push-f (talk) 13:25, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

+1 --Schoschi (talk) 23:24, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Pickup values

Resolved: Proposal:Pickup_points#Tagging now refers readers to Postal amenities for pickup locations for postal services. --Push-f (talk) 15:40, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree with your concerns about shop=outpost, but have a problem with listing what type of goods may be picked up from a location, as you often have the situation where the pick-up point is a shop in it's own right, but in a completely different field e.g. the chemist (pharmacy / drugstore) near us is also a pick-up point for a number of delivery networks, including Amazon, so you would have to list pickup=books;shoes;clothing;electronics;Amazon etc etc

This proposal is actually quite similar, in some ways, to the amenity=parcel_locker that went through a while back, so maybe amenity=pickup (=pickup_point?), together with a list of networks that deliver there may be a better way to go? --Fizzie41 (talk) 02:06, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Pickup points for parcels sent via general postal services providers (instead only one single shop brand) are to be tagged using post_office=post_partner. --Schoschi (talk) 12:18, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback. I have since heavily revised my proposal. Please note that the now proposed amenity=pickup_point is specifically for pickup points for a specific retailer. As opposed to pickup points for postal services. --Push-f (talk) 13:18, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Really only for online stores?

Resolved: The description has been updated accordingly. --Push-f (talk) 15:40, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

The version change 2022-09-28, 01:50:00 replaces "a specific retailer/marketplace" by "an online store". This excludes small shops in villages that offer a pick up outside of their usually very limited opening hours and that do not have an online shop but where you order by phone or "your usual stuff" is prepared for pick up. Is it really desired that these will be tagged as amenity=parcel_locker also in the future, despite the rationale applies just the same as for online shops? --Schoschi (talk) 09:20, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your attention to detail! I have changed the wording to just "store". I don't think that such small shops usually have a dedicated pickup point separate from the shop, so amenity=pickup_point might still not quite apply. The proposal also includes the click_and_collect=yes/no tag intended to be added to shops. That tag also doesn't really apply to order mechanisms other than websites: If you have to call a phone number, that's obviously not Click and Collect. So it might be worth it to generalize click_and_collect=* to also apply to other means of ordering. Perhaps order_and_pickup=yes/no? How does that sound to you? --Push-f (talk) 14:28, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

One example for a small business (not a chain) operating a dedicated pick up point is https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9162217798 of a butchery having only 1 shop. click_and_collect=yes/no cannot be used on the shop, because the pickup point is some 200m away from the shop, and it is not limited to the shop's opening hours. For diverging opening hours, I understood the proposal suggests in section "Tagging" to map a separate node for the pick up location. Especially opening hours are often a main motivation for small businesses to have a dedicated pick up point, i.e. customers can be served around the clock without the need to hire additional staff that would have nearly nothing to do (too low customer frequency in rural areas) and thus would not be economic. Side note: In this example's individual case, the butchery has an online shop, but that does only ship by parcel, while the pick up can only be used when ordering via another communication channel like phone – probably, because implementing an automated calculation whether pick up point's remaining capacity is sufficient would be too demanding for the low turnover of the online shop.

order_and_pickup=yes/no sounds great: clear, general useable. The proposal's free text IMHO shall still mention click & collect because that's a widely used & known implementation. --Schoschi (talk) 15:31, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

What kind of products can be picked up?

Resolved: products=* has been replaced with for_shop=*. --Push-f (talk) 05:34, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

The proposal currently suggests the products=* key for tagging what kind of products can be picked up at a amenity=pickup_point (akin to vending=* for amenity=vending).

The proposal further suggests that the tag values should correspond to shop=* values, in order to make it easy to query for shops and pickup points e.g. with Overpass QL:

(
   nwr[shop=X];
   nwr[amenity=pickup_point][products=X];
);

and you can just replace X with any shop=* value.

This works fine for e.g. shop=furniture → products=furniture, shop=books → products=books, shop=clothes → products=clothes it does however result in some awkward/unintuitive tags like e.g. shop=butcher → products=butcher. The more intuitive tagging here would of course be products=meat ... having the values diverge from the shop values would however complicate querying for both.

So I think it might be better to change the name of the proposed products=* tag to something else ... perhaps for_shop=*.

So we could have e.g. amenity=pickup_point + for_shop=furniture and amenity=pickup_point + for_shop=butcher.

This also has the added benefit that the tag name makes it clear that the values should be analogous to shop=*. What do you think about this?

--Push-f (talk) 16:44, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

+1 --Schoschi (talk) 21:41, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

This is syntactically mismatched. for_shop=* means it is different from shop=*. You want for:shop=*. I know you need to deprecate outpost=*, but it better not be too vague. Eg pickup_point:shop=* still works, while being less vague than for*=*. Furthermore pickup_point:*=* can be used for sub-attributes, if they are different, or as a sub-feature on another feature. It looks too general, in the lines of sells:*=*. (Btw products=* has more problem with its similarity with product=* for factories.) --- Kovposch (talk) 17:15, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Unclear

Resolved: The proposal has been updated to suggest amenity=product_pickup. --push-f (talk) 12:44, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't get the meaning of purchased items from amenity=pickup_point. It could be for passengers, ride-hailing, or child from school. It should be eg shop=pickup_point, amenity=shop_pickup, etc.
Would "collect" be better than "pickup"?
--- Kovposch (talk) 17:23, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, that's a good point! I however don't think we should use shop=* for pickup points because they aren't shops. amenity=shop_pickup also doesn't sound right to me ... you do not pick up the shop. I don't think "collect" clarifies anything. How about amenity=product_pickup? --push-f (talk) 12:35, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Leave parcels out

There is already a diverge between post_office:*=* and amenity=parcel_locker, that necessitates Proposed features/unified postal service tagging to solve it. Please avoid fragmented deprecations in replacing parcel_main_in=returns_only with return_parcels=*. They need to be discussed together. --- Kovposch (talk) 17:28, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Human operated vs self service

I suggest use drop Proposal, § 4 (replacement amenity=parcel_locker ) and replace amenity=pickup_point with office=store_pickup or simular, for human-operated establishments. Something B (talk) 09:47, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm trying to map a place (and wondering if this would be the right tag) (node 4021041961) that acts as a warehouse for bulky items ordered at a showroom style shop where salesmen talk people into choosing specific options, the products are complete kitchen furnishings in the €10.000+ price range that can be ordered with or without installation by craftsmen, and (significantly) with or without kerbside delivery. The place I am trying to map basically has a densely packed storage area and a big gate like door where workmen carry goods out to vehicles. Company website doesn't mention such warehouse facilities except in their terms and conditions, but the facility is very real and may be linked to a showroom a few miles away that lacks the space in that building. Jbohmdk (talk) 02:21, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Mixed parcel and pickup service

Here in Canada we have a company called PenguinPickUp which offers both pickup points for a few companies (IKEA, Walmart, wine etc) but also offers a service where they will send / receive packages for you from FedEx/UPS and other services. I am wondering how such a service would fit into this proposal? According to the current "Reasoning" this should still be tagged as "amenity=parcel_locker" because there is a functionality to send packages and receive packages from any sender. However if you change the semantics of parcel_locker, it may make sense to also clarify how this tag will be used in the future since this proposal seems to influence the parcel_locker tag usage. Best --Hannes Röst (talk) 18:23, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Merging with Proposal:Parking space=collection

Hello, I created this proposal Parking space=collection for individual parking spaces to marked as pick up points/collection bays which works nicely with your proposal. Can we merge both? --ThatRobson (talk) 10:48, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Your proposed feature seems overly specific to (usually outdoor) parking spots designated to customers picking up goods. This proposal is about a (usually indoor) place where goods are picked up. With the social distancing restrictions over in many countries, this is quite distinct, as the parking spot may very well be at the door of a facility. Jbohmdk (talk) 01:53, 25 September 2023 (UTC)