Proposal talk:Power Bank Rental

Extension to amenity=rental_machine?

There exists other rental machines, looking on the fact that you have to bring the object rented back to the machine. Even when in most times, at least in Germany, the object "rented" is free of charge. Common examples are machines, which provide you a shopping cart with a coin at the supermarket or a key for your locker at sport or public transportation facilities. Fabi2 (talk) 01:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I prefer amenity=* + *=powerbank , than a amenity=*_rental for everything. But what about rental services over counter, not machines?
They can offered by other amenity=* and shop=* , on their own, or in cooperation with a rental business. So powerbank_rental=* , or rental:powerbank=* is still needed.
—— Kovposch (talk) 07:21, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

+1 for changing the tag to something like amenity=rental_machine. It should be very clear that it's a machine. Otherwise one could confuse it with other amenities where you could rent power banks and this would result in conflicting tags. I agree, that the use of amenity=charging_station doesn't seem suitable. I think the fact that the machine is also charging the power banks is not important in the tag because it is quite logically implied. For the customer/user the charging process is not important. The "user interface" just implies that you get a charged power bank and return one empty. It's a pity that we already have e.g. bicycle_rental=docking_station which has similar features. Introducing amenity=rental_station could introduce a new tagging possibility for these kind of docking stations with more generalization. Of course that would lead to a bigger proposal... --Segubi (talk)

rental:powerbank=machine allows you to describe the method of rental in the tag. This would allow compatibility if bicycle_rental=docking_station were changed to rental:bicycle=docking_station. This allows almost infinite options with items and ways of renting, e.g. rental:towel=counter for over-the-counter towel rentals, rental:car=yes for generic car rental locations, rental:motorcycle=key_dispensing_machine for a self-service machine that dispenses the keyes to nearby motorbikes, etc. --Tysseract (talk) 04:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you both for the suggestions! There are other rental machines indeed, but I couldn't find a wiki page or any discussion about them anywhere, hence why I went for a new tag. An iteration over amenity=rental_machine would be great, as you could then do rental:powerbank=yes and so on, like you suggested. It's more flexible and akin to what we're doing with payment methods and other things. If a shop were to offer this service, we'd just omit the amenity=rental_machine. Your ideas are great and I am updating the proposal to include them, thanks again! :) --Paguro01 (talk) 18:13, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

You are the first one, who needs this. We already have amenity=vending_machine, but no amenity=rental_machine on OSM up to now. --Fabi2 (talk) 19:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

It was suggested above. If shop=rental is accepted, then amenity=rental_station would the counterpart to it and amenity=vending_machine . Really depends on how they should be organized.
—— Kovposch (talk) 07:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Rental machines and vending machines are different in my opinion, and I have done my best to explain it in the proposal. They operate on a different concept and are expected to be different. You can't simply put money in a rental machine and walk away with the thing: it's rented, not owned. --Paguro01 (talk) 11:25, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The argument for amenity=powerbank_rental isn't true. amenity=bicycle_rental uses bicycle_rental=* for this. But we really need to solve amenity=*_rental , *:rental=* , etc for anything to work. Creating amenity=powerbank_rental and powerbank_rental=* simply leads to more amenity=*_rental and *_rental=* eg amenity=umbrella_rental and umbrella_rental=* for another common machine and auxiliary service.
—— Kovposch (talk) 07:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Came here to suggest amenity=powerbank_rental and powerbank_rental=* as the option most consistent with the current norm. I still think it is a great option that solves a lot of the issues with other options but Kovposch makes a great point that it basically kicks the can down the road when we could use this as an opportunity to make a new common scheme to unify all of the Rental tags in use on the Rental Page, including rental=power_bank, power_bank:rental=yes/no, amenity=power_bank_rental, and power_bank_rental=yes/no. So the question is, does Paguro01 want to reform all of Rental now? Or just get power_bank_rental locations added to the map now, and then have the tagging convention discussion for all of Rental at a later point? --Tysseract (talk) 02:43, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

After thinking about it, Im going to suggest amenity=rental with rental:powerbank=machine on this proposal and then a future proposal reforming all types of Rental locations to amenity=rental with rental:item=yes/no/counter/machine/self_serve. --Tysseract (talk) 03:01, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your comments and the new picture on the page! I see your point, but it wasn't my intention to reform Rental - that is better saved for a separate set of proposals, otherwise we'd make this one too broad and it could fail. Your ideas on different values for rental:*=* are interesting and I am adding them to the proposal. Regarding the image you just added, is that a rental machine or a buy-and-trade-in? I am describing Power Bank Rental as machines or services that don't imply you owning the thing; if the machine sells you a battery and you can later drop it at another machine when empty, it's a totally different scenario in my opinion. I will add return_to=* to describe this as I can't find anything in the wiki regarding this. —— Paguro01 (talk) 09:11, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

It is a charging station.

Looks to me very much like a amenity=device_charging_station Add the tag fee=* and a new tag of captive=yes??? to indicate the device is not able to be taken by unauthorised people? Warin61 (talk) 06:20, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

• Arr my error. I was thinking the feature itself recharged devices rather than renting out power banks. I've never seen one, not that I'm looking for such things. In fact I have not seen any rental machines around me at all. A fair few of shops renting things from vehicles, including bicycles, to power saws and tractors, but no vending machines renting out stuff Warin61 (talk) 06:26, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

*:rental versus rental:*

For all kinds of objects, most notably vehicles, the documented and common tagging is using "rental" as a suffix. There are only very few cases of "rental" as a prefix. Therefore, the tag should be power_bank:rental=*. --Mueschel (talk) 11:29, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

There was a DWG block against such mass retagging. Shop suffix is mostly promoted by User:Rtfm , who was accused of many arguments. Cf Talk:Tag:shop=rental#Page_protection
motorcycle=* etc already exists, for the logic of motorcycle:sales=* . For mobile_phone:repair=* . it's shop=mobile_phone , powerbank=* , or *=powerbank doesn't yet. I don't see a need for powerbank:rental=* now. I'm basing it upon on post_office:*=* service for other shops, and rental=* for suffixing.
*:sales=* also competes with sells:*=* . The *:type=* suffix is meaningless as always. Not to mention having *:repair=* besides repair=* and service:*:repair=* .
Certainly, the dedicated amenity=*rental* feature could start with rental=powerbank . But it won't be very nice on other shops offering this service. It's better extended by rental:powerbank:*=* for eg rental:powerbank:network=* to show the service.
—— Kovposch (talk) 07:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

If you are against the "rental" prefix and want to change it, this could be the topic of another proposal. This small proposal for a single additional feature should follow the established tagging schemes - and might be changed later, when your additional proposal for major changes is accepted. There is no precedence for a "rental" prefix in the database, apart from bicycle rental stations in three individual cities. --Mueschel (talk) 08:41, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

There's no *=powerbank or powerbank=* yet either. Why should powerbank:*=* be proposed? That's the problem. *:rental=* applies to some shop=* . They don't get created first suddently.
—— Kovposch (talk) 14:16, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

In concept, rental:*=* makes more sense. Does this feature allow renting? Yes (rental:=*) -> What rental is allowed? Powerbanks (*:powerbank=yes). We can reuse this example in other places where this hierarchy is clear: Is parking allowed here? Yes (parking:=*) -> On which sides? Left (*:left:*=*) -> Are there any restrictions? (*:restriction=*). Does this feature have an address? Yes (addr:=*) -> Does this address include an housenumber? Yes (*:housenumber=*). Makes more sense to me. This hierarchy also means that each intermediate step is a valid key on its own to describe the feature up to that level of detail: sidewalk=* -> sidewalk:left=* -> sidewalk:left:surface=*. —— Paguro01 (talk) 11:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

+1 for rental:item=method, e.g. rental:powerbank=machine for a rental machine/kiosk, rental:powerbank=counter for over-the-counter rental, or rental:powerbank=yes for generic/undefined rental location. This could easily be combined with amenity=rental if standalone or amenity=shop/bar/library/etc if inside another location. --Tysseract (talk) 04:36, 19 November 2024 (UTC)