Talk:Australian Tagging Guidelines
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Clean Up
This page has been archived as part of the Australian wiki cleanup. Diacritic (talk)
Tagging towns by relative importance, not just population size
Have recently had short discussions on this topic on both the Forum: https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/tagging-towns-by-importance-not-population-size/103882 & Discord: https://discord.com/channels/413070382636072960/471231032645910529/1156228595124023438.
As mentioned on the Forum, I'd like to look at modifying our guidelines (& also the main wiki) by adding something like:
"When tagging population centres in sparsely inhabited areas, in addition to taking the number of residents into account, each towns relative importance to that area could also be considered e.g a village with only 200 people, but with e.g. a service station, store or pub etc, and with no other comparable population centres close by, could be tagged as a town. Similarly, an isolated bigger town (e.g. 5000 people, but with doctors / a hospital, a secondary school, larger shopping area etc) could be a city".
Possible criteria to look at / work on, so if they have at least one of these, they could move up:
Hamlet > village: primary school / operating railway station / possibly church?
Village > town: general (food) store / service station / pub / one of police - fire - ambos / possibly cafe or takeaway?
Town > city: doctor or hospital / secondary school / large shopping centre or area
All thoughts or comments welcome!
Will also post on the AU list. --Fizzie41 (talk) 04:16, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
Utilities and infrastructure: Telstra Pillars
Hello, to me, depicted Telstra pillars in the Utilities and infrastructure sub page relates more to telecom=distribution_point than telecom=connection_point. Aren't they the box that allow subscribers to be connected to the network? Fanfouer (talk) 08:11, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
- telecom=distribution_point is meant to cover up to 15 connections, not the larger number in a single pillar/cabinet. --Fortera (talk) 08:16, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
- Also it seems these aren't even operated by Telstra anymore, https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/media-technology-communications/internet/competition-broadband/telstras-separation-framework ? Aharvey (talk) 08:58, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
- It's more illustrative than a fixed constraint. How many connection do those pillars allow? Do they have a patch panel? Fanfouer (talk) 09:01, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
- From hundreds, up to thousands. https://nickvsnetworking.com/the-role-of-the-humble-telecom-pillar-cabinet-in-the-australian-copper-network/ has some good images of them. --Fortera (talk) 09:08, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
- Okay, thank you for useful explanation. I confirm it's telecom=connection_point, with connection_point=primary if they're directly fed by exchange or connection_point=secondary if they're behind a cabinet. Fanfouer (talk) 21:57, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
- From hundreds, up to thousands. https://nickvsnetworking.com/the-role-of-the-humble-telecom-pillar-cabinet-in-the-australian-copper-network/ has some good images of them. --Fortera (talk) 09:08, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
- It's more illustrative than a fixed constraint. How many connection do those pillars allow? Do they have a patch panel? Fanfouer (talk) 09:01, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
Utilities and Infrastructure: restructure by utility
Presently the Utilities and Infrastructure page contains a "street cabinets" section, which is then sub-divided by utility. However it means we document things about "Ausgrid" or "Transport for NSW" but only the street cabinets, other infrastructure like power lines or traffic signals would need to go in another section. So I suggest we restructure the page by utility and then include street cabinet sections within each top level utility.
- Energy Infrastructure (utility=power)
- Traffic Infrastructure
- Water Infrastructure
- Water Supply
- Water Distribution (utility=water)
- Wastewater (utility=sewerage)
- Stormwater (utility=stormwater)
- Communications Infrastructure (utility=telecom)
Thoughts? Aharvey (talk) 23:18, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
Substations
Ref Discord, to clarify substation=transmission is used for all substations transmitting electricity between areas, whether shorter or longer distances. So it would include both 400-to-132-kV grid-level, and the 132-to-33-kV subtransmission here. 33-to-11-kV substation=distribution primary/zone substations distributes to 11kV-to-380V substation=minor_distribution "distribution substations" to feed individual consumers.
The "bulk supply" terminology seems troublesome. It might be depending on perspective, or how the system is organized. UK appears to have them receiving 132kV. It's related to grid supply.
- "A Bulk Supply Point is any substation where the maximum voltage is above 33kV. Same as Grid Substation." https://ukpowernetworks.opendatasoft.com/pages/glossary/
- "Bulk supply substation" being 132kV to 33kV https://www.nationalgrid.co.uk/downloads/4921
- "Where a transmission network steps down to a distribution network, the node is known as a Grid Supply Point (GSP), and where a distribution network steps down from 132kV (typically to 33kV or 66kV) this is known as a Bulk Supply Point (BSP). " https://roadnighttaylor.co.uk/connectology/transmission-and-distribution-networks-for-newbies
- https://idno.vattenfall.co.uk/news-and-insights/news/jargon-buster/
- "A bulk supply point is a point of supply from a Transmission System in Scotland (known as a Grid Supply Point in England, Ireland and Wales)."
- "Grid supply points are the points where power is delivered from the transmission system to either a distribution network or a customer directly connected to the transmission system."
Also "bulk supply" might be confused with large "bulk" consumers supplied by substation=industrial directly , meaning it's no good to use substation=bulk_supply
US DoE has some NA (NERC) and international (IEEE) definitions compared from bulk to subtransmission and distribution www
IEC isn't very helpful https://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&ievref=601-01-33
—— Kovposch (talk) 16:09, 19 March 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks for your comments. I do think our bulk supply substations 330kV to 132kV match substation=transmission since they are fed by production and fed to distribution, so we should retag these. Then Zone substations 33kV to 11kV seem to match substation=distribution with the smaller kiosks substation=minor_distribution. The Subtransmission Stations (STS) are operated by the distribution companies and not by the transmission companies though, that's why I have listed them under the "Distribution Network". However they still link the Bulk Supply Transmission to the Zone Distribution substations, so it's unclear where they should sit, but probably substation=transmission. I prefer we align with the global tag values, and instead use somethnig like substation:AU=bulk_supply, substation:AU=subtransmission, substation:AU=zone as a way to tag the local classifications. Aharvey (talk) 00:19, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- designation=* could be considered for official classifications. Although it's originally for legal restrictions in UK, other countries have expanded to road classes, and other feature's classifications.
—— Kovposch (talk) 07:38, 20 March 2025 (UTC) - The definition of usage=transmission could be interpreted as highest voltage handled, ie receiving side of step-down transformers. So there's what 132kV substations fit. Substations are sometimes referred to and named by their highest voltage as well.
—— Kovposch (talk) 08:17, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
- designation=* could be considered for official classifications. Although it's originally for legal restrictions in UK, other countries have expanded to road classes, and other feature's classifications.
- Thanks for your comments. I do think our bulk supply substations 330kV to 132kV match substation=transmission since they are fed by production and fed to distribution, so we should retag these. Then Zone substations 33kV to 11kV seem to match substation=distribution with the smaller kiosks substation=minor_distribution. The Subtransmission Stations (STS) are operated by the distribution companies and not by the transmission companies though, that's why I have listed them under the "Distribution Network". However they still link the Bulk Supply Transmission to the Zone Distribution substations, so it's unclear where they should sit, but probably substation=transmission. I prefer we align with the global tag values, and instead use somethnig like substation:AU=bulk_supply, substation:AU=subtransmission, substation:AU=zone as a way to tag the local classifications. Aharvey (talk) 00:19, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
:au country code
The page asks to add post_office:type:au=*. "au" is the country code of Australia, and therefore should be in capital letters: post_office:type:AU=*. --Mueschel (talk) 11:09, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- What heading is that under, thanks, Mueschel? --Fizzie41 (talk) 00:27, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Australian_features#Post_Offices
—— Kovposch (talk) 08:39, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
- Australian_Tagging_Guidelines/Australian_features#Post_Offices
- post_office:type=* has been deprecated by post_office=* , so should be post_office:AU=*
—— Kovposch (talk) 08:38, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
Thanks, both - fixed! As I was doing so, I noticed that there's a few entries that show on the page as <brand=Australia Post>, but the entry is actually laid-out as <Tag|brand|3=Australia Post>. Why would it include <3=>? --Fizzie41 (talk) 22:18, 26 March 2025 (UTC)