Talk:Foundation/AGM11/Election to Board

We need a link to the current board in here somewhere. It is relevant if you want to vote strategically so that the board has a certain balance when it comes to gender, nationality, and so on. --Dittaeva 11:55, 1 September 2011 (BST)

Questions to Candidates

Questions from FK270673

First of all, I would like to ask all candidates:

• How many languages do you speak? --FK270673 20:24, 1 September 2011 (BST)

Between 4 and 7 --Mackerski 14:01, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Two-and-a-bit modern languages, five ancient languages (Old English, Old Norse, Medieval Welsh, Old Irish, Latin), and a clutch of programming languages. --Richard 14:12, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Between 4 and 8 (if you count natural languages only) --Derick 14:09, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Fluently, sadly only one. Although my school teacher in English might have said zero. Well enough to order in a restaurant, perhaps another 3. --Matt 14:24, 2 September 2011 (BST)

• What is your opinion about the speed of license change? --FK270673 20:24, 1 September 2011 (BST)

Painfully slow. But better too slow than too fast. --Mackerski 14:01, 2 September 2011 (BST)

It's moving in the right direction. I hope that we can move towards the natural conclusion without being unduly distracted by a very small minority of vociferous antis. --Richard 14:12, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I think it's all right. It's slow, but at least it allows for deliberate and thorough thinking-out of things. --Derick 14:09, 2 September 2011 (BST)

As fast as it could have been, as slow as it needed to be. I know that's not much of an answer, but while I was an LWG member we got complaints about it being both too fast and too slow and we tried to concentrate on getting it right. --Matt 14:24, 2 September 2011 (BST)

• What would you do in order to convince declining mappers? --FK270673 20:24, 1 September 2011 (BST)

Tell the truth. The truth includes the fact that whatever future licence OSM should have, no single mapper should ever again have the power of veto on changes. --Mackerski 14:01, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Agree with mackerski. In addition, I've long been involved in explaining licence complexities in understandable terms (for example, by writing [1] and [2]); explaining the situation in clear language is the best way to prevent misunderstandings. --Richard 14:12, 2 September 2011 (BST)

If people decline, it's likely they have made their choice. And there is often not much you can do about it. However, the whole process shows that it was not a good idea to not have thought about the relicensing issue before hand and we should make sure that in the future now specific user can held hostage their data, or in cases, whole areas of the map. --Derick 14:09, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Show them the benefits of ODbL - it's a much better suited license for data, avoids many of the ambiguities of the creative commons licenses and protects our data in the best way possible under current law. --Matt 14:24, 2 September 2011 (BST)

• Would you allow single users to declare their contributions as PD? --FK270673 20:24, 1 September 2011 (BST)

I cannot prevent them doing so. Tracking such declarations usefully in OSM seems difficult. --Mackerski 14:01, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Yes, very definitely. --Richard 14:12, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I've no problems with it. --Derick 14:09, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Many users already do. However, it remains a difficult problem to figure out what that means in practice in an area where there are a mixture of PD and non-PD contributions. Further complexity is added by the differences in the meaning of PD in different countries. --Matt 14:24, 2 September 2011 (BST)

• Would you allow to continue the Creative Commons license for small extracts (less than 10%) of the planet? --FK270673 20:24, 1 September 2011 (BST)

I can express no opinion on this without more details on the intent and suggested workings. Licence incompatibility seems likely to cause problems, though. --Mackerski 14:01, 2 September 2011 (BST)

No. One of the stated reasons for moving to ODbL is that the attribution and share-alike provisions are more enforceable, because it's not simply a copyright licence. Allowing CC extracts would defeat this. Rather, I would like to see CC move towards providing a usable licence for data in their 4.0 suite. --Richard 14:12, 2 September 2011 (BST)

No, because we have collectively made a choice to move to a new license. (Not everybody agreed obviously, but >99% of the mappers did) --Derick 14:09, 2 September 2011 (BST)

This would introduce a loophole into the protection provided by ODbL via the "repeated extraction" defintion. My view is that ODbL is the best way currently available to protect our data, and I wouldn't like to see it weakened in this manner. --Matt 14:24, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Fragen von Edwin-ldbg / Questions from Edwin-ldbg

Fragen an alle Kandidaten / Questions for all Candidates

• Wann werden die OSM Server nach Berlin umziehen? / When will the servers move to berlin?

Die Server bekommen dort keinen Aufenthaltserlaubnis ohne EU Staatsbürgerschaft. --Mackerski 13:53, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I'd start this process by giving you the MUMPS XAPI server. When you've proved you can run that efficiently, you can have another one. Good luck with that. --Richard 14:02, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Sorry, dragons don't like Berlin. --Derick 14:18, 2 September 2011 (BST)

When it makes sense to do so. --Matt 14:38, 2 September 2011 (BST)

• Wann beabsichtigt ihr deutsch zu lernen? / When do you plan to learn german?

Hob i ned nötig - a jeda konn scho Bairisch --Mackerski 13:53, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I speak Old English, which is what was spoken in England pre-1066 and is a Germanic language. If you guys didn't insist on changing your language so often we could converse in that. --Richard 14:02, 2 September 2011 (BST)

In -20 years. --Derick 14:18, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I learned German at school. Sadly I've forgotten most of it by now. --Matt 14:38, 2 September 2011 (BST)

• Wer von euch geht regelmäßig in die Kirche? / Who of you goes to church regularly?

Regelmäßigkeit besteht. Aber in welchem Takt? --Mackerski 13:53, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I do. I have a very large organ. --Richard 14:02, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I do, but it's the name of a pub. --Derick 14:18, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I used to, but now they're all mapped. --Matt 14:38, 2 September 2011 (BST)

• Wer von euch ist Mitglied bei einer Geheimloge wie den Illuminaten und Freimaurer? / Who of you is member of a secret society like illuminati or freemasons?

Siehe "Kirche" --Mackerski 13:53, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I'm justified, and I'm ancient. --Richard 14:02, 2 September 2011 (BST)

If I tell you I'd have to kill you. --Derick 14:18, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I don't think so, but then I might have wiped my memory to protect the secret... --Matt 14:38, 2 September 2011 (BST)

• Steht ihr unter dem Einfluss von Stefan Küste? / Are you controlled by Steve Coast?

Ich laufe wie ein Depp mit einem GPS Gerät durch die Gegend und erfasse alles neu. Wie kommst du denn auf die Idee? --Mackerski 13:53, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I'm controlled by Fake SteveC. --Richard 14:02, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Who is Stefan Küste? --Derick 14:18, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Yes, he controls me via the evil portal in his basement. --Matt 14:38, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Questions from SunCobalt

Questions for all Candidates

• Almost all board member candidates promised to improve the communication from the board to the community. Do you want that too? If yes, is there any really specific thing that you are already thinking about or planning to make the "black box" OSMF board more transparent for the common mapper ?

I can understand why people think that the OSMF operates as a "black box", but having been a member of several working groups, I can honestly say that everyone I've worked alongside, and I presume the board too, is trying to be as open and communicative as possible. What can be done to improve things? I'm not sure. But I am sure that whoever gets elected, they'll be open to ideas. --Matt 19:24, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Just the fact that candidates are answering questions here is a good step forward in communication! I think one of the difficulties with the licence change has been that a small minority have been throwing oppobrium at OSMF, which understandably makes the OSMF board less enthusiastic to communicate. I'd like to make sure that OSMF concentrates on engaging with the 99% of mappers who are helpful and supportive, rather than spending most of its time on a tiny minority.

The method of communication is important. OSMF generally does a good job of publishing meeting minutes, but these tend to be rather obscure for most people to plough through. Friendly communications via the OSMF blog, OpenGeoData, Twitter, and the 'announce' mailing lists can help to get the same information to more people. Things such as the working group summaries are a good initiative and I'd like to help revive them.

I'd also stress that communication is not just OSMF->mappers. Communications between OSM (project and Foundation both) and the outside world help to attract more mappers and to keep OSM's profile high. My day job is as a writer and editor and I'd hope to be able to help here. --Richard 19:56, 2 September 2011 (BST)

I'd love "improved" communication, but defining what that means is difficult. Adequate communication means that mappers are informed about the things they care about and not bothered by things they consider unimportant. Mappers are a diverse lot with different interests and expectations, which makes the job difficult. At a wild guess, rather less than 1% of mappers read OSMF minutes - so even with a full set of minutes it's clear that mappers are not informed about much of what the Foundation does. It's clear that some OSMF business needs to be announced more loudly than just in the minutes. It's also guaranteed that some mappers will continue to find fault with any communication strategy. I'll echo Richard's comments on the use of announcements lists and similar - I would hope that the board that emerges would lay down one clear policy along the lines of "Notices important enough that they should be seen by people who don't bother reading the minutes will always be posted in the following (ideally small number of) places", and that mappers be invited to comment on the wisdom of the channels chosen. And then it just happens :) --Mackerski 02:05, 3 September 2011 (BST)

• Do you think that the OSMF board should have a greater influence in the daily business of the mappers?

No. The OSMF board already has influence via the services and support that OSMF offers to mappers - but it should be mostly the mappers' choice how much they allow the OSMF board to influence them. --Matt 19:24, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Only invisibly! OSMF should make mappers' daily business more enjoyable - by supporting the developers and others who provide the essential infrastructure for mapping, and by supporting publicity and outreach to recruit more mappers. If this can be achieved without mappers noticing the hand of OSMF, that's a job well done. --Richard 19:56, 2 September 2011 (BST)

Maybe - in a do-ocracy like OSM anybody can influence anybody. It's useful that you used the word "influence" rather than "control". In OSM, every mapper has the power to choose whose influence he or she accepts and this is just as true if said influence comes from some activity or initiative of the OSMF board. For me, it doesn't matter whether a good idea comes from an individual mapper, a visible group like the OSMF board or an ad hoc group. If it's a good idea it will be embraced by mappers --Mackerski 02:04, 3 September 2011 (BST)