Proposal talk:Public Transport: Auditory Information
Use in combination with public transport v1 scheme
At the moment the proposal only mentions the usage in combination with the public transport v2 scheme (public_transport=*). The older public transport v1 scheme (highway=bus_stop) is still widely in use. I don't think this is a big issue, but it's something that should at least be added for completeness. Woazboat (talk) 13:48, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
Relation between speech_output=* and announcements=*
It's not entirely clear what the relation and/or differentiation between speech_output=* and announcement=* is. Maybe that could be expanded upon.
Does a departure board/information display with automatic speech output that doesn't need to be triggered via a button press count as announcement=yes/announcement=automatic? If a departure board/information display with speech output via button press count as announcement=manual? (I assume no for the latter since announcement=manual specifies a live announcement made by a person, but these are the kinds of things that are still a bit unclear) Woazboat (talk) 14:03, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for the feedback. I added some short explanations in the Tagging section for each tag that should make the difference between them more clear.
- > Does a departure board/information display with automatic speech output that doesn't need to be triggered via a button press count as announcement=yes/announcement=automatic?
- I never came across such thing but if it cannot be triggered on demand then it would not be tagged with speech_output=*. I would recommend adding announcement=* to the area where the automatic speech output occurs.
- Please let me know if you still think your addressed points need to be addressed in more detail in the proposal.
--OPENER (talk) 08:36, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Rethinking the main keys departures_board=* and passenger_information_display=*
Hello, basically I think the aim of this proposal is verry great, thank you. However, my opinion is that passenger_information_display and departures_board (i.e. usually departurtes_board=realtime - in digital form - are the same. (Possibly one can say that a departures_board only shows departures, but isn't that a passenger_information_display, too?) For example, the first two, actually even the first three pictures under "Examples" in the proposal Before accepting speech:output=* as an under-tag for both, one might not have to discuss whether departures_board=* should be used in favor of passenger_information_display=* and whether we could give up passenger_information_display=*?
P.S.: I know that the discussion is somewhat bypassing this proposal. Still, I think the point is important because a sub-key is suggested here for both keys. --Lukas458 (talk) 20:29, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
- See also Proposed features/Deprecate departures board=realtime and Proposed features/Deprecate passenger information display. --Nw520 (talk) 01:05, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for the input! Yeah, the definitions of departures_board and passenger_information_display are indeed a bit fuzzy. We thought about more clearly defining when what kind of tagging should be used, but decided that it would be too complicated and out of scope for this proposal. The sppech_output tag should be used on whatever object denotes the thing that has a speech output. --Wielandb (talk) 10:27, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
Language-Namespace
Hi, I don't know if maybe you've already considered this, but I think it would make sense to make the departures_board:speech_output=* tag language-compliant, right? (So, as is also the case for speech_output=*, for example speech_output:en=yes. In my opinion, the official language spoken in the respective country should be the default value anyway, but maybe one or the other would like to tag the language itself instead of just adding the pure speech_output=yes. Thank you. --Lukas458 (talk) 20:29, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
- Added! Thanks for the suggestion!
--Wielandb (talk) 10:45, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
Using announcement=* only for railway stations/halts
I think the idea with announcement=* is basically great, but maybe we can agree on only using this tag at train stations (subway / light rail stations and tram stops would be questionable) and **particularly not at bus stops?** (I don't know of a single bus stop, nor any larger ones, where delayed buses are announced (NOT at the push of a button, but general announcements).
I consider this to be relatively important in order to avoid spam.--Lukas458 (talk) 20:37, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
Sound for localisation
Passenger information screens here repeatedly emit a knocking sound to support locating the button which needs to be pressed to trigger the speech output. Maybe this could be tagged too? --Nw520 (talk) 00:18, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
- Oh yes, very good idea! I do not know about the key, but I think the value should be something like locate (or locate should be included into the key) because we do already have traffic_signals:sound=locate for traffi signals which emit a knocking sound to support locating them (but do not emit a sound when the lights change to green).--Lukas458 (talk) 15:56, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
- It looks very useful, but we consider it out of the scope of the proposal. --Wielandb (talk) 11:12, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
announcement tags and descriptions
The announcement tags and particularly the descriptions assume all announcements are computer generated. While this is now the case where I live, I imagine there are parts of the world where it isn't. Anyway it doesn't seem to be the attribute of interest. Can I suggest announcement=periodic instead of automatic. At least change the descriptions to talk about regular or routine announcements and remove mention of a system. Thanks TrekClimbing (talk) 20:24, 10 April 2023 (UTC) Okay, so I misunderstood the manual one, as that sounded like triggered by a passenger. announcement=occasional? You can have a person announcing everything or a system only occasionally announcing so I'm still not convinced the machine/person distinction is helpful, and will presumably become harder to determine as AI and speech output improve. TrekClimbing (talk) 22:11, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
- The distinction between automatic and manual simply refers to if a person from the station staff has to do something to make the announcement. If the announcement will automatically play when a train arrives, it's automatic (this may be a recording/AI generated/TTS - it's not of interest). If someone from the station staff needs to make the concious effort "Oh, a train arrived, I'd better make an announcement", it's manual. Does this clear it up? --Wielandb (talk) 14:08, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks. It clarifies your intentions. I'm struggling to understand why it would be of interest to a map user. I would also expect there will be verifiability issues. How long do I have to wait at a station to decide if it's just an automated announcement or mixed, where the human would be only making exceptional announcements. Also, manual is a poor choice as it refers to hands - they might have to push a button but it isn't very relevant. BTW, I'm supportive of the speech_output suffixes. --TrekClimbing (talk) 18:04, 12 April 2023 (UTC)