Talk:Tag:craft=tailor

craft vs shop

We should probably rename this to shop=tailor and put in a redirect so people use the standard tag. Pnorman (talk) 23:50, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Moving, with redirect, based on taginfo and prior usage. -- Pnorman 21 January 2015‎

Key:craft says:

A place producing or processing customized goods. To differentiate between trade, service and craft, this proposal wants to reserve shop=* for trade (focused on selling pre-produced goods) and creates new key craft=* for a small production of goods on demand and by an order. I find this description more fitting to a tailor.

You also have contradicting documentation: Key:shop says "use craft=tailor"

--Jojo4u (talk) 16:34, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

The Tag:craft=tailor page currently redirects to this page suggesting that Tag:shop=tailor be used. --MRPockets (talk) 21:54, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

I disagree with this redirect. Tailoring is clearly a craft, comparable to shoemaking, for which we have craft=shoemaker. We should not discourage the more consistent tag just it has a slightly lower usage, historically. --Polarbear w (talk) 11:39, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I have re-created the page craft=tailor as it is more appropriate than shop=tailor and modified this page accordingly. Chrabros (talk) 11:03, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Well. pnorman's redirect decision didn't stick (discussion above). Back in 2010 there was a strong dominance of the older shop tag so it made sense back then. Looking at the stats also with the TagHistory tool. It seems nowadays people have been using both tags more and more. The switch to using craft isn't really happening. Maybe that's because "tailors shop" is a really common way of saying it (yes yes I know it's a service not a shop selling goods)

Not sure how we'd break the tie on this, but I don't think we should be overly prescriptive. Describing craft as "more appropriate" probably doesn't reflect the balance of opinion. I tidied up both pages and cross-linked in a way which hopefully makes sense. We could make it more prominent perhaps.

--Harry Wood (talk) 00:22, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Number games

@Jeisenbe just added "In mid-2018 to mid-2019, shop=tailor was added to 4 times as many additional features." Could you explain what that means, what you are comparing, and what additional features you are talking about? --Polarbear w (talk) 12:26, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

The source is the chart at Taghistory, which actually shows the total number of features in the database in July 2018 and July 2019. Unfortunately Taghistory does not support permalinks, so you will have to type in craft + tailor and shop + tailor and compare: taghistory.raifer.tech - but you'll see that craft=tailor was used just under 5500 times in late June/early July 2018 and about 6500 times now, while shop=tailor was used just under 11,000 times in late June 2018, and over 15,300 times now; so the increase is >4000, vs about 1000, in 12 months. Perhaps it could be phrased better? --Jeisenbe (talk) 12:49, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for explanation. If you consider the difference in meaning of the two tags, could the reason for the number game be that nowadays there are more 'shops', e.g. taking individual measurement while production is in cheap-labour countries, than 'craft', e.g. an individual sitting there and sewing your suit?--Polarbear w (talk) 07:37, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

I have not reviewed how the tag is used in other places, but I note that wikipedia says "A tailor is a person who makes, repairs, or alters clothing professionally ... They may work out of their home, a studio, or retail shop, and may work part-time or full-time. " I tag retail tailor shops as shop=tailor, because the are in the same places as other retail shops, with heavy foot traffic, and have open storefronts (in Indonesia) and many types of cloth on display. But I would use craft=tailor for a tailor who works out of their own private home, without a dedicated shop or storefront, or out of a studio or workshop which is not designed for the public to walk in and order something off the street. The key shop=* is used quite commonly for retail "services" in addition to retailing finished goods (4th most common value is hairdresser, 6th is car repair), so I see no issue with using it for tailors when they have a retail "shop" style establishment. --Jeisenbe (talk) 00:22, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

So different mappers use different criteria for distinguishing shop vs craft. You use storefront vs back/home workshop, others use selling vs manufacturing. Thus it makes no sense to me to make numerical comparisons in the first paragraph, which key is more popular or growing faster. --Polarbear w (talk) 19:24, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

How should we describe the two tags, then? We could write something like "some mappers use craft=tailor for all tailor workplaces and shops, others use shop=tailor for all tailors, and some mappers distinguish between the two tags by using shop=tailor for retail tailor shops, and craft=tailor for the workplaces of tailors who do not work out of a retail shop" - but I'm not sure if that's really helpful? --Jeisenbe (talk) 08:18, 19 August 2019 (UTC)