Talk:Tag:entrance=shop

Work around relations?

When I map a shop, I do so as a node. The node is inside the boundaries of a building. Recently, a shop covers the whole ground floor of the multi-storey building. I put the shop close to where the shop entrance is, this feels a bit ugly. What if I'd like to map both entrances: the shop's one (shop), and the staircase one (main)? That reminded me of: When I map an outdoor seating, I do so as a node or as an area. I add "operator=Name of restaurant|bar|etc" to its list of tags and consider myself a good citizen. It is ugly to parse, of course, and may prove fragile to maintain, but I do not think so far. Would that make sense for shop entrances too?--Hungerburg (talk) 22:53, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

For such detail I would consider highway=corridor line between entrance and shop node Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 09:58, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Connecting entrances to shop nodes with corridors is what I often do. This especially makes sense when there are several shops behind one entrance. However various editors, especially iD, consider it to be an error. iD would say to any passerby user that a shop node "should be a standalone point" and display a button to disconnect the node from the corridor. --Anton Khorev (talk) 13:43, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

See https://github.com/openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema/issues/539 Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 13:48, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Only for shops?

Maybe we could clarify the definition. For instance, is it okay to tag the entrance of a restaurant or a pharmacy as entrance=shop or are we expected to keep a clear line between "shops" and other businesses? Bxl-forever (talk) 10:38, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

For start, pharmacy is also a shop, just selling medicines. In general, I would use it also for restaurants (unless it is also main entrance, for example when building houses only restaurant) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 13:48, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I also do this. ;-) I will clarify to rule to avoid that an over-zealous mapper would erase them because the POI behind it is not in the shop=* category. It’s based on personal experience of too often having to clean damage made by people blindly following something they read on the wiki. Bxl-forever (talk) 18:46, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

I think it's possible to decide like this: Imagine that the shop is closed. Would you still say that this entrance is a shop entrance? For pharmacies the answer is usually yes. --Anton Khorev (talk) 15:01, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

For a restaurant (or a café/pub/bar/...), I would definitely not say that the entrance leads to a “shop” (whether it is closed or not). Or should a restaurant (or a cafe/pub/bar/nightclub/...) now also be called a shop? OK, they sell food or drinks... But what kind of bad semantic concept is it to use entrance=shop for “everything” (where anything is sold)? Shouldn't OSM also retain a bit of a feeling for language or not take it into account at all? Why wasn't entrance=commercial used as a counterpart to entrance=home? That could then also be used for entrances to many craft=* or office=* objects, for example. I would be strongly in favor of only using entrance=shop for objects from the shop category (and a few exceptions such as a pharmacy – perhaps everything, which also could be in the shop category).

Basically, I think it's a problem to "invent" categories for entrance=* that are too fine, otherwise at some point you'll need all sorts of things like entrance=craft, entrance=office, entrance=social_facility, entrance=healthcare, entrance=kindergarden, entrance=school, entrance=club etc. etc. (some of these values are already used – others also seem to have noticed this problem). For me, most of it is expressed through access=* with entrance=yes or entrance=main (or one of the other established and well-defined values), which is actually one of the most important factors for an entrance, I think – not where it leads to.

Another fundamental problem that I'm always faced with: what if an entrance leads to several different destinations (e.g. both to apartments and offices, or to a hallway/corridor that leads to shops/offices and possibly apartments) - then all that's left is entrance=yes and possibly multiple values for access=* like customers;private (for the entrance to the building and as long as there is no indoor mapping). And multiple values for access=* are not really desirable. (I know there is also entrance=staircase, but that doesn't always fit either.)

There are many things that are not fully thought through with “entrances” and this inevitably leads to problems, inconsistencies, unclear tag usage and frustration at the end when mapping. entrance=shop is not a step in a good, sensible direction, I fear (or not a wisely chosen value). Extending it to objects that don't really fit doesn't make it any better. My position is (because it is already used a lot) that it should remain as clearly defined as possible to objects where it really fits. For example, it should not be used as a synonym or an alias for “commercial”. I think the question or thoughts of Anton Khorev behind his question goes in the right direction. (Too bad no one responded.) --Goodidea (talk) 14:34, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I like the idea of a generic tag, something like entrance=commercial, that would replace the existing entrance=shop one day. Bxl-forever (talk) 09:28, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I found entrance:use=* before. That could correspond to building=* / building:part=* / building:use=* .
—— Kovposch (talk) 07:13, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

entrance=commercial etc shouldn't be used either. They prevent entrance=main , entrance=secondary , and entrance=service from being shown for tenants when a room have multiple accesses. These are the dominant ones, and the entrance:primary=* won't fit other two.
—— Kovposch (talk) 07:14, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

In one of my diary entries I argue that these "shop" entrances look different no matter if there's a shop behind them. For example, they typically have larger door handles and other adaptations for customer access. In this sense the "shop" entrance type wouldn't conflict with entrance=home and possibly entrance=main. --Anton Khorev (talk) 10:58, 14 October 2024 (UTC)