Talk:Tag:landuse=allotments

Size

Is this meant to exclude land with parcels smaller than 15 m²? Evil saltine 23:04, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

As far as I can tell that description has been lifted straight from Wikipedia, and isn't based on anything OSM mappers have done or decided. However, I'd be surprised to find allotments of less than 15 m² since you can't grow much in that space. What is it you're trying to map? Jonathan Bennett 09:31, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm mapping a community garden with plots 4' x 20' (about 7.4 m²). People rent and tend to individual plots, and use communal equipment. Here is what it looks like, here it is in OSM. Evil saltine 22:20, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

No crops

In NL we have a special case of community gardes often called Tuinpark. People don't grow crops on their plots, they just hang out there. There's usually a small wooden house on the plot, equipped with electricity and cable TV - people spend entire weekends there in the summer. Does this fall under allotments as well? -- Martijn van Exel 12:44, 1 May 2011 (BST)

I would say no. In the UK there are often strict rules saying that an allotment has to be cultivated, or your tenancy is terminated. Sounds more like a garden to me. Jonathan Bennett 08:43, 4 May 2011 (BST)

Entire site

"Note that this tag is for the entire site, rather than individual plots" - 1) it is not fully correct, because tag landuse=* is used for landuse, gardening can have big square and inner squares, which are not intended for plots; 2) (partially because of reason 1) this phrase doesn't corresponds a real practice. I think, we should correct this phrase. Dinamik (talk) 07:14, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

To correct this should we propose a new tag landuse=plot which sits hierarchically under landuse=allotments. Or could landuse=allotments be used to demarc an individual parcel of land as well as the collection of plots which makes up the greater area of land?

I have started a proposal to the tag landuse=plot --Growbradford (talk) 14:53, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I now have a proposal under way for allotments=plot. Please comment on the discussion --Growbradford (talk) 12:23, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Individual vegetable patches in rural residential areas

In some regions, there is a practice of using landuse=allotments to map individual kitchen gardens in people's backyards (common in rural areas). I suggest adding the following passage to the Notes section to discourage tag misuse:

Individual vegetable gardens located on private property within residental areas can be tagged as leisure=garden with garden:type=residential and garden:style=kitchen.

--Ungoose (talk) 15:15, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that leisure=garden is correct for backyard vegetable patches either. The short definition of that tag is "A place where flowers and other plants are grown in a decorative and structured manner or for scientific purposes" and the longer one is "A garden is a distinguishable planned space, usually outdoors, set aside for the display, cultivation, and enjoyment of plants and other forms of nature". --Jeisenbe (talk) 04:26, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Well, landuse=allotments is probably not a good match either - it is defined as "a concentration in one place of a few or up to several hundreds of land parcels that are assigned to individuals or families" and a "tag is for the entire site, rather than individual plots."

The proposed combination was the closest thing I was able to find:

garden:type=residential - The most common form of garden, located in proximity to a residence, usually private access only. Often with front garden and back garden. The main purpose is usually relaxation activities - it doesn't really matter if it is a plain lawn, or complex garden in French style. See  Residential garden.

garden:style=kitchen - Used for growing fruit and vegetable, etc., see  Kitchen garden.

The Wikipedia article about kitchens garden has a "vegetable garden" section, which is actually spot on but there is no such value listed on the garden:style=* page. garden:style=kitchen, on the other hand, is quite common, with more than 2300 entries as of now: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/garden:style#values --Ungoose (talk) 05:44, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

To be clear, my goal is not to promote the use of a specific tag but to discourage the misuse of landuse=allotments. What does concern me is that mapping these features may be falling into the "mapping private information" category. The article Limitations on mapping private information has the following recommendation: Limit the detail of mapping private backyards. As a guideline, permanently installed private swimming pools (add access=private as appropriate), or some structure of a semi-public garden appear to be acceptable. More detailed info is likely to be not acceptable or borderline. Similar concerns are voiced in the Talk:Tag:leisure=garden. Besides, the presence of vegetable gardens is implied by residential=rural. So maybe instead we should just add

Do not use for mapping individual vegetable gardens in private backyards (see Limitations on mapping private information for details). For publicly accessible vegetable gardens, consider leisure=garden with garden:type=residential and garden:style=kitchen.

--Ungoose (talk) 07:43, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Overspecific definition?

Where is the definition from? (wikipedia, clearly). When was it discussed and has it been checked that OpenStreetMap use is consistent with it? For example there is this paragraph: The individual gardeners are organised in an allotment association which leases the land from the owner who may be a public, private or ecclesiastical entity, provided that it is only used for gardening. Is it a strict requirement? Who even says that ecclesiastical is something different than a private or public entity? What about squatting or getting the land for free or owning the land yourself? Wikipedia was changed since this definition was copied, are we changing our definitions as well? Generally I believe this is too long and specific, thereby excluding valid uses. —Dieterdreist (talk) 09:48, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I've used this for any mixed-use area featuring small plots of vegetable gardening, orchards, and occasional weekend or living house, commonly found on city and village boundaries, such as here. I don't know of a better landuse tag for such cases, and I don't really feel like micromapping landuses of individual plots (which may easily change next year). Duja (talk) 10:33, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

removed one especially irrelevant part - [1] (that with ecclesiastical fiddling) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:43, 21 October 2022 (UTC)