Talk:Tag:shop=bakery

Archived votes:

Talk:Tag:shop=bakery/Archived vote 1 - old vote (2006) on a different tag

Talk:Tag:shop=bakery/Archived vote 2 - old vote (2008) on the currently documented shop=bakery

Current discussion of Tag:shop=bakery goes here:

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"industrial bread" bakery

what is the tag for a shop which sells bread but does'nt do it ? --Christouf 07:55, 23 May 2011 (BST)

"A bakery is a shop selling bread. Bakeries normally bake fresh bread on the premises."

So normally but not always. If the shop is primarily selling bread, tag it as a bakery!

If it sells bread but also all sorts of other things, maybe a different tag such as shop=convenience is more appropriate.

-- Harry Wood 15:21, 23 May 2011 (BST)

ok thanks, so there is not tag for "industrial bread" bakery --Christouf 23:40, 9 June 2011 (BST)

"industrial bread" bakery? Not sure what you mean. D'you have a photo of one? Do you mean a factory where they make bread to go in packets? -- Harry Wood 01:52, 10 June 2011 (BST)

In france, only shop who make bread on the premises can named "Boulangerie". I said "industrial bread bakery for the others.--Christouf 20:46, 4 October 2011 (BST)

We're not so strict for the word 'bakery' used in the UK. A shop might sell bread and be called a bakery without actually baking the bread on the premises. Bit unusual though. If a shop has a focus on selling bread (which is pretty much how I would define this tag) then it would normally bake the bread there. On the french translation of this page, you might want to point out that this tag can possibly cover things which you wouldn't call a boulangerie. Also maybe we need a property tag. "baked_on_premises=no" or something to flag up these ones. I wouldn't called that "industrial" though. -- Harry Wood (talk) 11:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

bakehouse (DE:Backhaus, Backhäusle)

In many places in southern Germany, legislation in the 19th century required that baking was done in a central bakehouse. That was built of brick and equipped with a proper oven and chimney. Before, many fires had occurred due to people baking bread in their own timber-framed houses.

Today, such bakehouses are frequently operated by local associations on some weekends and festival days. They often are a distinctive feature of old village centers.

They do not, however, offer baking goods on a regular basis, and are thus no shops.

How could these bakehouses be tagged? I suggest historic=bakehouse. Gpermant 12:35, 15 April 2012 (BST)

Is this little thing a Backhaus?

Lauffen am Neckar Backhaus Kirchbergstraße

Yeah historic=bakehouse seems sensible to me. Don't think we have them in the UK.

-- Harry Wood (talk) 11:58, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

A bakery serving drinks and snacks. Add tag amenity=cafe ?

In my experience most bakeries offer seating and serve hot drinks, cakeslices, croissants etc. But that is not the case everywhere. Also the prime function might be sale or the prime function might be as a cafe. I thought perhaps I could add a tag for seating. But there seems to be very sight precedene for that. So is the best choice to simply add the tag amenity=cafe in addition to shop=bakery ? MortenLange (talk) 12:57, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Bread type tag

I've been some work with trying to clean up names that violate the naming rules. While doing that I happened to notice that there are a lot of bakeries in middle eastern countries that are named after what type of bread they sell there, instead of by the bakery name. I assume they are specialty bakeries that only sell a single bread. So I would like to introduce something like a bread=* tag that would designate what type of bread is being sold.

There is currently a bread=* tag being used with 22 uses, most of which are "yes." I will probably piggy back off of that one. There's also bread vending machines that this would probably be useful for. I know there is a cuisine tag, but I don't feel its adequate. Since bread is a cuisine, but type of bread is not (at least to me. Unless your talking about a bagel or something similar, but not for french bread or whole wheat). I wanted to get some feedback on it first though. Id like to avoid a proposal process if necessary, but I don't want to adopt a bad tagging scheme either. --Adamant1 (talk) 04:30, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Link to opening_hours tool

I don't think we should have a link to the opening_hours tool (http://projets.pavie.info/yohours/) on every shop page. Mappers can be expected to follow the link to opening_hours=* to learn about the format. Similarly, we don't give a long explanation about all the different Addr tags, or the different names tags, on each feature page. --Jeisenbe (talk) 01:24, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Don't remove potentially helpful info which doesn't disturb (as of length or similar). The opening hours syntax is hard to understand for beginners and especially affected shops. rtfm Rtfm (talk) 11:48, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

How does redirecting / linking to another page constitute removal. You aren't going to post every validation tool here. It would be more misleading to put a single partial piece of information on this page, and unhelpful to keep up with every bits of info posted on all pages mentioning opening_hours=*. Unless there's somehow an tool specifically for a bakery, it would be counterproductive to add it here. -- Kovposch (talk) 08:46, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

We want to encourage stopping the use of shop=bakery

So, I've been discussing a proposed feature to include tortilla shops as an accepted feature. My proposal is shop=tortilla. muralito joined this discussion, arguing that shop=food should be used as a keyvalue combination that's over all types of shops selling foods. shop=bakery is one of the most widely used combinations in OSM, but I see their point in proposing shop=food with food=bread/cake/* instead of shop=bakery, or shop=food with food=vegetables instead of shop=greengrocer.

Since shop=food already exists and is used in OSM, we believe this would allow a hierarchical system with food as the genera and the type of food sold as a specific character. We believe this system could accommodate better to cases less widely used, but still very useful in a more regional scale. If we adopt shop=food with food=bread/cake/*, this would open the possibilities for any type of food in the world, including food=tortilla/pasta (instead of shop=pasta)/*. We know this is a big change, but we believe it is more inclusive with lesser known and or less well represented cultures in OSM. 22 August 2021 -- CENTSOARER

shop=food can be used without deprecating shop=bakery. In fact, proposal to use it without deprecating some standard tags is more likely to be accepted and followed. I see no benefit at all of shop=food + food=bread over shop=bakery. It would be less correct (bakeries sell not only bread), more complicated to tag, requiring changes in all data consumers and all editors Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:57, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Re: You can specify several products sold in the bakery, not only bread, that was just the more obvious usage for a bakery. I am not an English native speaker and I really do not know if there is a noun to refer to any baked food or if food=baked would satisfy. However, I understand your point, it seems more reasonable to propose it as an alternative tagging system.

You are right in the sense that both schemes can be used, of course, but shop=bakery sets a precedent hard to bear for many other shops that sell food, as bread is conspicuous everywhere. This creates an unleveled field for any other type of shop selling exclusively food. Taginfo shows shop=bakery as the only combination of shop selling food in the top ten for the key "shop". Right after the top ten, you can find shop=butcher and at ~25 there is shop=greengrocer. They are all selling food, but to come up with a new shop value selling food to be supported, there's a struggle. We are trying to fix the reality in our lives to accommodate to those three or so values.

Having thousands of tortilla shops, we are making unreasonable efforts to tag these food shops with supported tags. No one would mistake these shops with bakeries in real life, but we are mostly mapping them as such. Right now, I am making an effort to propose a shop=tortilla tag, but the problem remains for all people in a similar place. shop=pasta seems to have had the same problem, and any other not so widely spread type of food shop will struggle with this unhierarchical scheme. shop=bakery, shop=butcher, and shop=greengrocer, they all set a very hard to reach global usage for other food shops. Still, if contributors would change their approach, if they deem it reasonable, it could be of benefit to the whole community without really sacrificing a lot.

The wiki, in the FOOD and beverages section won't even mention the shop=food tag. Maybe I will start right there. 23 August 2021 -- CENTSOARER

I would be very in support of a shop=tortilla or tortilleria. I remember having a bit of trouble when I was mapping a tortillería and didn't really know what tag I should use. I ended up just tagging it as a convenience store because it sold other goods like spices, molcajetes, and folk crafts; but I know there are definitely places that exclusively sell tortillas and products to make tortillas like masa. Bakery definitely doesn't fit for that kind of shop, I suppose shop=food could work, and the idea of making a separate tag in combination with shop=food to specify the type of food shop is interesting. But I think it would be a bit too intrusive at this point since there's already a kind of status quo set in place. --AragonChristopherR17z (talk) 06:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)