User talk:Bgo eiu

Hey there! I was wondering if you were interested in contributing some translations for my JOSM plugin noteSolver (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Kmpoppe/Plugins#noteSolver), as I've seen that you were going for translating StreetComplete to pa-PK/pnb. The noteSolver has only 12 strings, so it's really a short way :) Please contact me via OSM-DM at https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kmpoppe if you find the time! Thanks!

The POEditor project is located at https://poeditor.com/join/project/RggSp7leZr, and you can add more languages you speak by yourself if you like.

--Kai M. Poppe (talk) 05:19, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Revert

Note, edits you made to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Names&action=history were reverted and right now are discussed at tagging mailing list - see https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2022-August/065130.html You can participate in discussion there if you want. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 16:15, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for notifying me. I have responded, but I find that this user who has reverted this change seems uninterested in considering any points to the contrary to their position. This is concerning because they are encouraging the deletion of useful information with no evidence that this is widely supported. -Bgo eiu (talk) 19:18, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi Bgo. I've tried to reconcile the different viewpoints on transliteration while keeping some of the uncontroversial examples of "bad" transliteration. I'm hoping this reconcile these competing demands and make it clearer when transliteration is appropriate and when it isn't. Diacritic (talk) 00:37, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

I've had a look and it seems good, I appreciate it. I got a bit irritated with some of the mailing list arguments so I figured it would be best that I not push the issue further myself. The only thing I am still a little uneasy about is the bullet point that says not to make up unlikely translations. While I understand the intent, it's still too subjective a standard to recommend. Inuktitut labels on Indonesian villages are not that likely, but Inuktitut and Indonesian also have little in common with English, yet we still have many words to describe these languages and cultures in English because people are interested to learn about them. In fact most Inuktitut villages are also labelled in English because English speakers were so interested, and those are nowhere near England! Should an Inuktitut writer want to translate OSM wiki guidelines about Indonesian village tagging, it wouldn't really be fair to stop them when English speakers are already doing this. This seems like a hypothetical dilemma anyway - I doubt there are any Inuktitut tags on Indonesian villages currently, so we don't really need to complain about something that hasn't happened at scale so far. If I did see tags in a language I don't know much about on features, I would want to hear the reasoning and discuss first before judging because there could be a good reason for it I didn't know about. I wouldn't want to remove something without figuring out why it was there in the first place. --Bgo eiu (talk) 02:48, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

I can appreciate your point around equity of languages. It's not a fair assumption that the only two "valid" options and English. English isn't (or shouldn't be) the default language, and I would consider a contrived English transliteration of a rural town in Iran equally at fault of this guideline.

That said, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of editors coming up with transliterations of their own based on their fascination of another culture (for comparison, see the Scots Wikipedia controversy. It intuitively feels unverifiable to me. Diacritic (talk) 03:28, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree interest alone is not always a good reason to add translations, and the Scots Wikipedia is a good example of a problem with that. On the other hand, Persian Wikipedia editors have gotten Welsh town names down to a precision that you can actually put them through a Persian text-to-speech program and it sounds like the Welsh pronunciation. While possibly a niche interest, I would say that those probably are helpful to people because they've considered what would be necessary to "bridge" the local names to speakers of other languages (Arabic wiki spells Llanfair with لل as if there were actually two "l" sounds, but Persian wiki spells it with ش "sh" because this is what "ll" actually sounds closer to for non-Welsh speakers.)

Ultimately, the stage OSM is in right now there is lower hanging fruit to worry about. For example, I fixed an incorrect label for the country of India in Punjabi, an Indian language, this week (it was written starting with ھ, a letter which is not supposed to occur at the start of words in the language). According to taginfo there are more Spanish labels in India than Bengali ones, and Bengali is the second most spoken language in India. At least the Spanish labels might make it easier for someone to find the label in Bengali. So my main concern would just be that people shouldn't be discouraged from adding labels like that, which does involve some amount of transcription, when there is a long way to go before local labels are available everywhere. I am thinking of putting together some language specific transcription rules to link to, since there are some obvious clues in Punjabi for example that something was machine translated. People would be able to catch these even if they don't know the language. (Like ھ or أ at the beginning of a word would be a sign someone did not know that Arabic writing rules don't apply to other Arabic script languages, or ے before the end of the word can be a sign that a bot was not coded to account for that letter only being allowed at end positions.) That way, there is some verifiability and they have something they can check if they see something suspicious instead of having to guess. --Bgo eiu (talk) 05:01, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Module:Languages‎‎ revert

Hi, I reverted your edits to Module:Languages‎‎ because they messed up Template:Languages on all articles (screenshot ... notice the superfluous dots).

--Push-f (talk) 07:28, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

The right to left language links were completely broken on Android before, the dots are not more important than those translations. Those are just there because the languages between the dots are not shown until you click "other languages". Going to change it back as I am in the middle of translating articles and I have to create a separate table to link them if they don't work. -Bgo eiu (talk) 07:36, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't think that breaking the aesthetics of 62,581 pages is acceptable. --Push-f (talk) 07:49, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't think that breaking the links to translation in several languages is acceptable. If you can figure out how to fix the dots before I do, you may do so, but otherwise just leave it. The alternative is adding two language tables each wiki page, like the one I added to Key:name:skr. -Bgo eiu (talk) 07:52, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Also, seeing the Arabic script languages in the wrong direction before was also an aesthetic problem, it is not like it looked normal before. --Bgo eiu (talk) 07:54, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

The links to Arabic languages should of course be fixed ... but there's a right way and a wrong way to fix something. The right way is to do so without messing up nearly all wiki pages. If you don't know how to do that you can just ask for help ... I am sure that others will be willing to help. --Push-f (talk) 07:56, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

The wiki pages were already messed up is what I'm saying. The dot thing is the default behavior of horizontal lists and I think there is some locked CSS somewhere that may be relying on the language codes being in the wrong place. In any case, I just removed the dots altogether if that is preferable, I don't mind either way --Bgo eiu (talk) 08:03, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes there is MediaWiki:Common.css and admins have the right to edit that. Thanks for removing the dots ... that's better. It still looks worse than before because the language links are now too close together but it no longer looks completely broken. --Push-f (talk) 08:11, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

OK, I am glad you find that preferable. I have made it manually add no break spaces around the links yet, does this look better? 2 spaces was two dramatic. I am hesitant to suggest any CSS change or use padding here because these would become "outside" the link text and therefore not get hidden with them, and anything appended "after" an element means a different place every time the text direction switches. At least with spaces we can double these on each side without it looking as awkward. --Bgo eiu (talk) 08:43, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Broken user link

Hi, I wanted to send you a message via OSM, but the user listed (bgo_eio) does not exist. Did you perhaps rename your account? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pietervdvn (talk • contribs) 2:28, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

@Pietervdvn: I did rename it recently, fixed the link on my user page https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/%D8%B9%D8%AB%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86%20%E0%A8%89%E0%A8%B8%E0%A8%AE%E0%A8%BE%E0%A8%A8%20bgo_eiu --Bgo eiu (talk) 00:53, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

landuse=brownfield definition

Hi, I've just left a comment at [1] about your change to the meaning of landuse=brownfield about a year ago. -- Rjw62 (talk) 22:58, 9 March 2023 (UTC)