Proposal:Grab rails
| Grab rails | |
|---|---|
| Proposal status: | Proposals with undefined or invalid status (inactive) |
| Proposed by: | Pietervdvn |
| Tagging: | grab_rail:left; grab_rail:right; grab_rail:behind=horizontal_wall_mounted;vertical_wall_mounted;diagonal_wall_mounted;foldable;armrest |
| Applies to: | node,area |
| Definition: | A grab rail is a support to help wheelchair users to transfer from their wheelchair onto the toilet |
| Statistics: |
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| Draft started: | 2025-03-14 |
| RFC start: | 2025-03-14 |
| Vote start: | 2025-03-29 |
Proposal and rationale
Some wheelchair users are dependent on grab rails and other supports to move from their wheelchair onto the toilet. Some of them have a strong preference or need for this grab rail to be on a certain side of the toilet (e.g. someone who is paralyzed in their right arm will need the support to be on the left). For others, certain types of support are harder then others.
Why not handrail
The term handrail is associated mostly with steps, ramps and elevators. A grab rail is the proper UK-english noun for this type of object. It is widely used within the disability community, but is also used in the official documentation such as the building codex. American English uses grab bar as common term; but as the OpenStreetMap project prefers British English we settled for grab_rail.
Tagging
| Image | tag | Explanation |
|---|---|---|
| grab_rail:<right/left>=horizontal_wall_mounted | A wall-mounted grab rail in a horizontal position (or which has a horizontal part). | |
| grab_rail:<right/left>=vertical_wall_mounted | A wall-mounted grab rail in a vertical position (or which has a vertical part). | |
| grab_rail:<right/left>=diagonal_wall_mounted | A wall-mounted grab rail in a diagonal position (or which has a diagonal part). | |
| grab_rail:<right/left>=horizontal_wall_mounted;vertical_wall_mounted | A wall-mounted grab rail with both a horizontal and vertical part; or two wall mounts of which one is horizontal and one is vertical | |
| grab_rail:<right/left>=foldable | A foldable wall mount, also known as drop-down grab bar or drop down grab rail | |
| grab_rail:<right/left>=no | There is no grab rail on this side |
Both sides are considered separately. If there are multiple grab rails on one side, they are combined with a semicolon.
Left and right are interpreted when sitting on the toilet.
In some cases, there are also grab rails behind the toilet. In this case, grab_rail:behind=* is used. The default assumption is grab_rail:behind=no
What about armrests?
Some toilets have armrests. See the proposal here
What about urinals?
This proposal is specifically about sitting toilets. Urinals with grab rails exist; and there might be a urinal in the wheelchair dedicated toilet. However, if there is both a urinal and a sitting toilet in the wheelchair dedicated toilet, this tagging is about the sitting-toilet. A future proposal might deal with urinals.
Using prefixes
grab_rail:<left/right>=* will be used on amenity=toilets if all the toilets of the cluster are dedicated to wheelchair users or if all the toilets have an identical grab rail setup. This will probably be the case if there is only a single toilet. Note that a toilet might have a grab rail, but might not be designated as "wheelchair accessible" and/or might not meet the (legal) requirement to meet wheelchair=yes - hence usage without wheelchair-suffix can occur.
toilets:wheelchair:grab_rail:<left/right>=* will be used if this grabrail setup is found in the wheelchair-designated toilet. Practically, >90% of the grab-rail usage will thus be with this prefix.
We recommend in being explicit and marking left and right separately, even if they are identical. :both means that the grabrail setup is identical on both sides.
Using grab_rail=* without left/right is semantically unclear: it might mean that the described setup is on both sides of the toilet or that it is on only a single side of the toilet. This is considered coarse information and we strongly prefer the above tagging.
Examples
This toilet would be tagged with grab_rail:right=horizontal_wall_mounted and grab_rail:left=foldable
Features/Pages affected
External discussions
Comments
Please comment on the discussion page.
Voting
- Log in to the wiki if you are not already logged in.
- Scroll back down and click "Edit source" next to the title "Voting". Copy and paste the appropriate code from this table on its own line at the bottom of the text area:
| To get this output | you type | Description |
|---|---|---|
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{{vote|yes}} --~~~~
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Feel free to also explain why you support the proposal! |
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{{vote|no}} reason --~~~~
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Replace reason with your reason(s) for voting no. |
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{{vote|abstain}} comments --~~~~
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If you don't want to vote yes or no but do have something to say. Replace comments with your comments. |
~~~~ automatically inserts your name and the current date.For more types of votes you can cast, see Template:Vote. See also how vote outcome is processed.
I approve this proposal. --Pietervdvn (talk) 01:19, 29 March 2025 (UTC)- I approve this proposal. --Sunset Sakura (talk) 09:02, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- I approve this proposal. --Djsa (talk) 18:02, 29 March 2025 (UTC)
- I approve this proposal. --Trainsgender (talk) 16:50, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
I oppose this proposal. none of my concerns on the community forum has been addressed and when attempts were made to discuss feedback was written off. — GA Kevin (talk) 23:22, 4 April 2025 (UTC)- I oppose this proposal. I think this is far too far mapping of details. Toilets are usually labeled as simply amenity=toilets, without any details. No one will need such microscopic details. We create a map. What's next - the color of the toilet tiles? The forests of Canada are waiting to be mapped. In addition, a poorly filled proposal: no voting status, no voting end date. maro21 14:20, 12 April 2025 (UTC)
- I oppose this proposal. A defined tagging scheme for features of accessible toilets is definitely a good thing. This proposal is too specific though. If we map grab rails, we should be able to add them to all kind of accessible infrastructure, not only on toilets. E.g. on sinks and public showers. How to tag them if all three are present in a single place? The proposal also fails to address the existing tagging using toilets:wheelchair:grab_rails=*. --Mueschel (talk) 13:35, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
- I oppose this proposal. Reasons are given above --Söm4324 (talk) 17:08, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
- I oppose this proposal. Too specific and confusing with the keys armrest and handrail. Additionally we are voting although the proposal is not even in voting status. --Computae (talk) 17:45, 13 April 2025 (UTC)
I have comments but abstain from voting on this proposal. I don't wish to deny anyone a certain tagging of physical reality on the ground, the core principle of OSM, but I agree with the critical arguments mentioned before so I abstain --Hike&Map (talk) 11:09, 14 April 2025 (UTC)- I oppose this proposal. The proposal is rather too specific. It risks being a failed tag because it requires wikipedia level editing hyper-skills. I'm highly sympathetic to the problems of movement constrained people and even more so to those with paruresis so mapping toilets is always, always good. BUT...I'd want to encourage fast simple solutions that help those in need but are quick and easy for our less skilled (majority) mappers. As the advice says, Keep It Simple. So grab_rails=yes is not a problem. grab_rails=chrome and =wood and =slant and =left and =right and =folding and =firm and =slightly_loose and =positively_dangerous and abandoned:grab_rails=Yes are too much. --CRaIgalLAn (talk) 14:35, 14 April 2025 (UTC)
- I oppose this proposal. This looks a bit too detailed to me. But if it becomes widespread anyway, I support a revote. —Gymate (talk) 04:37, 15 April 2025 (UTC)