Proposal:Man made=evaporation tower

Note! The proposal needed the necessary changes, so the vote was stopped and the article was repaired under the name: Proposed features/graduation tower & brine source. Please vote in two weeks on this proposal. Coolawik (talk) 11:05, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

man made=evaporation tower
Proposal status:	Canceled (inactive)
Proposed by:	Coolawik
Tagging:	man_made=evaporation_tower
Applies to:	,
Definition:	evaporation/graduation tower
Statistics:
Draft started:	2022-07-27
RFC start:	2022-08-10
Vote start:	2022-10-20

Proposal

Graduation towers are structures used in the production of salt which remove water from a saline solution by evaporation, increasing its concentration of mineral salts. The tag can be used on nodes (as POIs) and areas.

The mineral-rich water droplets in the air are regarded as having beneficial health effects similar to that of breathing in sea air.

Rationale

1. We had a few use of man_made=graduation_tower but after discussion on the talk page we've agreed to man_made=evaporation_tower; as there's no graduation towers in English-speaking countrys, the name evaporation tower would tell mappers more than graduation tower. No use foramenity=graduation_tower; building=graduation_tower; man_made=thorn_house.
2. We have an unclear use in stub articles of graduation towers on the wiki, so many of graduations tower are onlytourism=attraction (e.g. 4095375179 4095375179, 1000050489 1000050489, 8420864847 8420864847);building=yes (e.g. 373881180 373881180; 923748887 923748887) or amenity=fountain (e.g. 525327281 525327281; 7536427323 7536427323; 532557236 532557236)

Tagging

Create a node or an area, tagged with man_made=evaporation_tower.

Additional tags

Key + Tag	Description	Recommendation
operator=*	Operator of graduation tower.	‽ Important
opening_hours=*	The opening hours of graduation towers.	‽ Important
brine_source=*	The origin of the brine in the graduation tower. (the place where the brine is extracted)	? Optional
building=yes	If the graduation tower is a building.	? Optional
tourism=attraction	If the graduation tower is an attraction.	? Optional
length=*; height=* & width=*	Dimensions of the graduation tower.	? Optional
lit=yes	If the graduation tower is lit.	? Optional
fee=yes	If you have to pay to use the graduation tower.	? Optional
seasonal=yes	If the graduation tower does not work in winter.	? Optional
start_date=*	If the date of the opening is known.	? Optional

Examples

Photo	OSM link	Tagging
	1080478588 1080478588 1080478589 1080478589	man_made=evaporation_tower building=yes operator=UM Świnoujście height=3 lit=yes fee=no start_date=2020 opening_hours=24/7
	1081860620 1081860620	man_made=evaporation_tower building=yes tourism=attraction start_date=2021 operator=UM Bielawa lit=yes fee=no start_date=2021 seasonal=yes opening_hours=24/7 brine_source=Zabłocie link to brine_source information board photo (in Polish)
	177324154 177324154	man_made=evaporation_tower name=Tężnia I building=yes tourism=attraction start_date=1828 length=655 height=15.8 operator=nid lit=no fee=yes as it's heritage too historic=heritage heritage=2 heritage:operator=nid ref:nid=A/1399

Rendering

Something like salt and drop of water icon? (example)

Features/Pages affected

• Key:man made - add to the list
• Tag:man made=evaporation tower - create article + declare as approved
• Tag:man made=graduation tower - declare from 'in use' to 'deprecated'
• Key:brine_source - create article + declare as approved

Comments

Please comment on the discussion page.

Voting

Voting closed

Voting on this proposal has been closed.

The result is canceled with 7 votes for, 4 votes against and 1 abstention.

• I approve this proposal. Coolawik (talk) 17:47, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. I see no problems with this proposal (though not entirely sure is it better than man_made=graduation_tower given that it is its technical name and it is already in use, I would also support proposal for man_made=graduation_tower, but I also see benefit of more understandable name...) --Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 18:30, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --123kwiatek (talk) 18:34, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. -- Something B (talk) 19:29, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. Marc marc (talk) 20:03, 20 October 2022 (UTC) man_made=graduation_tower exist, documented, term used by WP, I see no value to switch it to a "osm specific terme" again, the hudge list of additional tag that already exist is also not a good think. are we voting onn those tags too ? what's if the proposal fail, lit become=* reject ? brine_source=* is also not ideal, the description itself talks about origin and there is only one example of this key, so the meaning is not obvious to guess, is it the place? if so it's look like a duplicate of origin=*. if not, more info is needed Marc marc (talk) 20:03, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

That is a good question - what is the role of this "addtional tags" section? Are there also getting approved in this proposal? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 20:26, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, the proposal's content have been listed in Proposed_features/man_made=evaporation_tower#Features/Pages_affected. --- Kovposch (talk) 20:47, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

It's not the same. This is freeform text. origin=* is pre-defined list of nations for products sold. It's not clear how to distinguish cultural origin, design origin, brand origin, and manufacturing origin, etc either. --- Kovposch (talk) 20:47, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

@Marc marc and Chris66: I've changed the table format to be more readable. It lists important or optional tags that may be combined with man_made=evaporation_tower. Coolawik (talk) 20:44, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

but you can't change the content during a vote. so please stop the vote, made your changes and start a RFC again to see if someone have comment. Marc marc (talk) 21:55, 21 October 2022 (UTC) OK. Voting canceled & I've created new: Proposed features/evaporation tower & brine source. Coolawik (talk) 11:05, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

• I have comments but abstain from voting on this proposal. 1. It tries to approve badly defined brine_source. 2. It suggests that place around tower should be tagged as landuse=recreation_ground --Maraf (talk) 20:29, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

• I too find brine_source=* not ideal. But it's passable. We can figure out how to sort out water_source=*, Proposed features/spring:name, origin=*, etc later. --- Kovposch (talk) 20:47, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
• @Rafmar: landuse=recreation_ground has been removed. Coolawik (talk) 21:17, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

• I approve this proposal. --- Kovposch (talk) 11:19, 21 October 2022 (UTC) https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/man_made=evaporation_tower&type=revision&diff=2423809&oldid=2423726

• @Kovposch: landuse=recreation_ground has been removed. Coolawik (talk) 21:17, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

• I approve this proposal. IMHO it is generally right to put specific towers in the main man_made=* tag space. There are some nitpicks, like why would you add a generic building=yes if you already know the specific building type, but this is not preventing approval. Not sure which term is better (graduation towet) --Dieterdreist (talk) 21:40, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
• I oppose this proposal. - Beside i propose to improve the naming (if graduation is too misleading), there are some issues: 1) man_made=evaporation_tower seems too general, i could imaging man_made=brine_concentration_tower 2) i would not mix more then one new tag (here you can find a bit hidden the brine_source=*), if it is not stated in top grey infobox 3) there is no spelled out term for definition in the grey box (only "evaporation/graduation tower") --MalgiK (talk) 00:36, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

@MalgiK: 1) but I've changed the main tag once, because man_made=graduation_tower was too confusing. If someone doesn't know what the evaporation tower is, he won't be looking for it or adding it to OSM. 2) the issue of the brine's origin is strictly related to the evaporation tower and can be only used with this place. 3) Besides, I can't add more than one tag to the infobox template. Coolawik (talk) 16:07, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

@Coolawik:

Regarding the content & 1) so you talk about the change from value graduation_tower to evaporation_tower on the talk page? As said, your Proposal text "... are structures used in the production of salt which remove water from a saline solution by evaporation, increasing its concentration of mineral salts." and your (btw. nice) example pictures pointing to quite specific units which are deal with production of salt, in contrast to that is the proposed wording evaporation_tower which sounds like an unit which using a general technology of the evaporation.

Regaring the format & 3) you are right the parameters of template {{Proposal Page}} are not so good suitable for using more than one tag. As a workaround (you might use) i did add two options to the talk page, see: Talk:Proposed_features/man_made=evaporation_tower#Proposal for easier demonstrate to introduce of more than one new tag within a prososal page

Regarding the content & new 4) As here stated ("there's no graduation towers in English-speaking countrys") misleading wording "graduation tower" came from wikipedia (even this wikipedia term & article was indrotuced from an (en) native speaker: see: [1] & [2]). I'm not native en, but why if the term is misleading, do you use it in this table 8 times as description texts? --MalgiK (talk) 21:20, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

After some more investigation i prefer finally the value name salt_concentration_tower see pictures instead of brine_concentration_tower mentioned above earlier. --MalgiK (talk) 21:49, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

• I oppose this proposal. Although I think "evaporation tower" is a better term than "graduation tower", I think this better fits as a tower:type=* tag. I also don't support the use of tourism=attraction and brine_source=*; tourism=attraction without further specification only means "people come here to look at it" which isn't valuable in a cartographic sense, and brine_source=* is some obscure tag that IMO should be proposed separately. --501ghost (talk) 08:28, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

It's not a man_made=tower. Eg to the extreme, a computer tower can't use that either. So I find that this is allowable. tower:type=* itself has its own problems.--- Kovposch (talk) 11:19, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

@501ghost: 1. When we read a definition of man_made=tower ("A tower is a free-standing structure which is higher than it is wide.") and we see photos of evaporation towers in examples, we see that it is not higher than wider. And next: "A tower provides platforms", but we cannot climb the graduation tower. 2. About tourism=attraction: an article about this tag tells us that it is used "to indicate that the item is interesting for tourists". Modern evaporation towers are created for this very purpose. So that tourists or residents can sit / walk around them and heal themselves in this way. 3. I will repeat: the issue of the brine's origin (brine_source=*) is strictly related to the evaporation tower and can be only used with this place. Coolawik (talk) 16:31, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm willing to retract my statement about man_made=tower, but I find tourism=attraction still to vague to support. People travel to all countries and cities for tourism but we're not tagging the countries and cities with this tag either (I hope). brine_source=* can be used under the ATYL guideline but I'm not going to approve it in this proposal. --501ghost (talk) 19:10, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

@501ghost: I've changed table of additional tags to more clearly version. Now tourism=attraction is optional, so we don't have to use it. But for example evaporation tower in Ciechocinek is the only place people in Poland associate this city with, and the only attraction they go there for. Coolawik (talk) 20:39, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

• I oppose this proposal. same critics as Marc marc --chris66 (talk) 08:51, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
• I approve this proposal. --NieWnen (talk) 16:04, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Note! The proposal needed the necessary changes, so the vote was stopped and the article was repaired under the name: Proposed features/graduation tower & brine source. Please vote in two weeks on this proposal. Coolawik (talk) 11:05, 22 October 2022 (UTC)