Proposal talk:Tag:healthcare=vaccination centre

Prior discussion copied from Talk:Proposed_features/vaccination

We need a new main feature tag for vaccination-only locations

The proposed new tag, vaccination=<Illnesses against which vaccinations are available>, seems like a reasonable idea.

However, it might be necessary to discuss a main feature tag to use in the case when these are not administered by a clinic or doctor's office or hospital. There does not seem to be a widely used, suitable tag under healthcare=* or amenity=* for a place that specializes in administering immunizations only.

healthcare:speciality=vaccination is not a primary feature tag, but a secondary tag which needs to be added to something under the key amenity=* or healthcare=*. Perhaps amenity=vaccination_centre would work? --Jeisenbe (talk) 06:38, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

I agree that a main physical tag is useful, however it is intentionally not part of the voting part of this proposal. I'd prefer to let that develop on the ground, or maybe in a separate discussion. I consider different approaches as valid, in particular:

• keeping the main tag as is from the facility that is temporarily used, e.g. the centre is in a sports facility, leisure=stadium + healthcare:speciality=vaccination + vaccination=covid19, in particular when it fully occupies the facility
• using a main tag from the healthcare or amenity key for a new POI. Your amenity=vaccination_centre might work, I have also seen healthcare=centre being mentioned.

--Polarbear w (talk) 15:27, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately healthcare=centre has never been defined. It has been used for anything from large inpatient "medical centers" (usually known as "hospitals") to outpatient "surgery centers" (usually called "clinics" or a "surgeon's office") to "village health centers" which don't have a physician on staff, depending on the country. That is why I recommend picking a tag. I expect that either amenity=vaccination_centre or healthcare=vaccination_site or anything similar would work; the exact value is not so important. --Jeisenbe (talk) 19:27, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

Hm that's a pity. I hadn't checked the tag when somebody mentioned it. It would be nice to have a physical tag that is agnostic of the activity, specify the activity in healthcare:speciality, and finally the disease being fought in the vaccination=* tag. --Polarbear w (talk) 20:58, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

End of prior discussion

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The need of a new main feature tag for vaccination-only locations

Seeing how things unfold, I'm not fully convinced that we need a separate and dedicated healthcare=* tag for this purpose. If no other physical tag fits, healthcare=centre is not so bad, even with its history of unspecific use. It's getting quite popular with the German activities of vaccination tagging. It's a bit like building=yes that can be refined with a more precise type as needed. And the purpose is already sub-defined with healthcare:speciality=*. --Polarbear w (talk) 18:56, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

If healthcare=centre can be used for single-purpose vaccine facilities, which might consist of tents in a parking lot, as well as for a surgical center, clinic, village health post, or anything else called a "health centre" then it means little more than healthcare=yes. Why not use a value which makes it clear? --Jeisenbe (talk) 23:06, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

That's the same thing it always happened in OSM. We fragment our forces. Polarbear already made a proposal about that theme. Why you do not coordinate your work and develop a tagging scheme together? The proposed key will not be visible on the main map. Especially in this pandemic situation IMHO it is very important to se it on this mapand to have a possibility to rout to such a centre. There work doctors to make anamnesis, nurses to assist the doctors and other personnel to coordinate the vaccinations and doctors to vaccinate a lot of people. For me it is nothing else than a more or less big medical praxis —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aeonesa (talk • contribs) 20 December 2020‎

@Aeonesa - I see you contributing in many discussions, but only on the demanding side. Maybe YOU could coordinate some efforts as well? As for the "main map", you apparently mean the OSM carto style. E.g. you could start a discussion there how vaccination centres should be rendered? As for a "big medical praxis", you mean a doctor's office (amenity=doctors), but that would be completely wrong. Your description loosely matches amenity=clinic (A clinic is a medical centre, with more staff than a doctor's office, that does not admit inpatients), however the primary purpose of a clinic is treatment of illnesses, not prevention as a vaccination.--Polarbear w (talk) 18:47, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

@Jeisenbe - the reason why I am reluctant in seeing a need for the specific tag is that many of those facilities reuse existing infrastructure. The combination of healthcare:speciality=vaccination + vaccination=* describes the specific purpose and the acute application. This would limit the proposed centre tag to the structures erected on purpose, as the tents you mention. And I doubt that the key would be used consistently enough to be useful in rendering. --Polarbear w (talk) 18:54, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

But you can't just tag something healthcare:speciality=vaccination + vaccination=covid19 because this lacks a main feature tag. Are you suggesting adding these tags to an amenity=parking if there are tents set up in a parking lot? Or building=tent? But that's like having building=school + isced:level=* for a school without adding amenity=school - you need to tag the feature, not just the physical structure (parking lot, tent, warehouse, etc). Uses of healthcare:speciality=* were supposed to be with a main feature tag like amenity=doctors or healthcare=midwife--Jeisenbe (talk) 23:39, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

The discussion gets a bit stuck between just the two of us, lacking fresh perspectives. Anyway you would be able to open voting soon, I'd recommend that you make clear in the voting question if we vote a) for having that tag mandatory for any facility that does not have (or could possibly have) a legitimate healthcare=* tag (i.e. leisure=sports_hall needs it added), or b) it is only for cases where no useful physical tag exists (the tents in the parking lot). --Polarbear w (talk) 23:49, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

@Polarbaer In my opinion your comment is not really fair. If you read all my posts in discussions to this theme, you could read that I am not so familiar with the voting things. And furthermore I do not wont to disturb your high scientific discourse about the purpose of a clinic. By the way I never wrote about a clinic. I wrote about to use the tag amenity=doctors. And yes, my description fits also for a clinic, but not only for a clinic. The tag healthcare=centre would be also wrong (Please see the wiki). IMHO amenity=doctors is not the best tag for it, but the best approximation for this use. You know my opinion from a lot of discussions. So it is your turn, to find the right solution.--Aeonesa (talk) 13:59, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

@Polarbear w: - It is not my intention to use this tag on a leisure=sports_centre which happens to be used for a vaccination drive for one weekend. The descriptive paragraph at the top says this tag is only for "a healthcare facility specifically dedicated to administering vaccinations to individuals". Is that not sufficiently clear? --Jeisenbe (talk) 06:18, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

In Berlin we have: 2 former airports, a music-events centre, an ice sports hall, a bicycle race stadium and an exhibition hall, all as medium-term facilities. They are all mappable and not just weekend-campaigns. Beyond that there will be mobile teams visiting nursing homes. Hospitals care for themselves. --Polarbear w (talk) 17:23, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Testing centre too?

Does this also represent a virus testing centre? Jnicho02 (talk) 09:07, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

No, definitely not. This new tag is only for vaccination centres - and I suspect that you would not want to give vaccines to healthy people and do testing on potentially sick people in the same spot.

I was just tested at a temporary COVID-19 test center today, and so I was thinking about this. The best current option is healthcare=laboratory since that is normally where you go for medical tests, but I feel a little uncomfortable using that for a tent in a parking lot where there is no actual "laboratory" to run the tests - they are taken back to the hospital laboratory for the actual specimen testing. Perhaps we need to discuss this on the Tagging list. --Jeisenbe 22:23, 2 January 2021‎

Certainly not 'laboratory' for the place where the samples are taken. For the PCR tests, they are sent to standalone or hospital labs. For the quick tests, they can be performed anywhere, thus laboratory would not fit either. --Polarbear w (talk) 11:41, 4 January 2021 (UTC)