Talk:Tag:product=machinery
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Machinery itself
Also give clues on how to map the machinery itself.
For instance there's some giant machine fenced off in the middle of this parking lot. How to map that in the general case, where we don't even know what kind of machine it is?
- Please don't spam every page. Talk:Tag:building=service#When there is no building to house the items --- Kovposch (talk) 09:54, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
Using machinery to make more machines?
Does "product=machinery" mean that the facility uses machines to make other stuff (ie: a machine shop) or does this mean that this is a factory which actually makes, designs or builds new machinery of its own? Two very different concepts - which make this ambiguous. carlb (talk) 00:43, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
- product=* is used for the product, not production methods. --- Kovposch (talk) 04:37, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
- In that case, isn't this page's infobox description "place where a variety of parts are machined for different companies" incorrect?
- I'm beginning to have some doubts about the decision to deprecate Tag:industrial=machine shop in favour of "man_made=works + product=*". That might be reasonable if the machining operation exists solely to turn out parts for your own products (for instance, Nissan might want a factory doing nothing but turning out Datsun cogs, all day, every day) but what if this is merely a contract manufacturer - various clients come in with various tasks for things to be fabricated or repaired, but there is no one single product to point to and say "We make this, just this. It's raining Datsun cogs." At some point this looks more like a service industry than a factory. Certainly "product=machinery" doesn't fit unless this facility actually makes machines, but "product=*" doesn't fit if this is just a contractor to whom anyone can bring a stack of blueprints and ask "we need some of these arbitrary parts fabricated or machined" with different tasks for different clients every day. carlb (talk) 17:34, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
- "I'm beginning to have some doubts about the decision to deprecate Tag:industrial=machine shop." The term machine shop is kind of an ambiguous misnomer since they aren't shops that sell machines. Usually it's just a room where people use tools to make parts or assemble things. which I guess is fine, but there's already a lot of other tags that overlap it. For instance leisure=hackerspace. There's also a bunch of craft=* tags that are extremely similar, but clearer.
- You could probably argue there should be tag specifically for companies that manufacture parts for manufacturing though, but in that case I'd go with something like office=logistics or something along those lines. Otherwise you'd get some weird tautological territory where your doing nonsensical circular tagging like industrial=industrial or man_made=works + product=industrial. Maybe product=industrial wouldn't be so bad though. What about product=industrial_machinery? --Adamant1 (talk) 22:47, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
- A industrial=machine shop does have a specific meaning. It's not a "shop" (retail store) but a workshop, it's not "a room where people use tools to make parts" as the whole point is that it uses a few specific types of machine to cut, grind, mill, drill and tap into the material to create the product. It's not a leisure pursuit, a hack or a handicraft; this is actual manufacturing with a workshop full of machinery churning out metal parts. And no, that's not the same as office=logistics as that's just a fancy buzzword for "trucking" or "hauling" along with a few closely-associated activities such as warehousing and freight forwarding - it serves to get products where they need to go, but it's not actual manufacturing. And no, changing it from manufacturing "machinery" to it manufacturing "industrial machinery" doesn't get this any closer to the actual concept of a industrial=machine shop being a workshop where a machinist uses metal-working machines to produce other things. So:
- man_made=works + product=* would include a factory using machines to make their own products
- landuse=industrial + industrial=machine_shop is a workshop which, as a paid service, makes custom parts to a client's specification or blueprint - so this one part of the manufacturing process is split off and made available as a standalone offering.
- man_made=works + product=machinery is a factory that actually makes machines.
- - carlb (talk) 23:11, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
- I agree. There's a further unspecified amenity=workshop that can be reviewed together.
That said, craft=* could be used instead of industrial=*? Eg craft=machined_parts. Cf craft=handicraft which define products based on method.
man_made=works as a replacement for industrial=machine_shop is obviously wrong for the scale. Kovposch (talk) 08:45, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
- I agree. There's a further unspecified amenity=workshop that can be reviewed together.
- Come on. "Machine shop" is a well-known term. What's the problem? --- Kovposch (talk) 08:44, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
- They aren't 100% analogous, but I looked into the usage of the various "workshop" tags a while back and it was all over the place. industrial=machine_shop doesn't seem to be much better. To give a few examples, it's being used on a place that coats metal, somewhere that makes boat decks, a diesel engine repair shop, a few welding places, Etc. Etc. The point is, there's no common dominator and none of them are industrial machine shops. Or they are, and the meaning of "industrial machine shop" is just to ambiguous to be useful. Take your pick. Either way, the welders can clearly just be tagged as craft=welder. I'm sure there's a better for the diesel engine repair shop. So at the of the day what is the unique thing the industrial=machine_shop tag is being used for and what exactly is it's purpose outside of being an ambiguous catch all? And not in a "I define a machine shop as X and I'm always right so do it my way! Reeee!!!!" way, but in actual usage. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:46, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
- See
machine shop if you're that unsure about what a machinist does. It's not the same as a welder, although some metal fabrication shops may employ both. carlb (talk) 03:09, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
- What part of me saying the tagging is all over the place makes you think I'm unsure about what a machinist does? I know it's not the same as a welder, but if that's how people are using the tag then my opinion about it obviously isn't what matters here. Be my guest and take it up with the people who are using the tag as catch all though. In the meantime, I rather come up with a tag for "machine shops" that people aren't going to just use for whatever random POIs they feel like using it on because they don't understand what the tag is for. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:00, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
- See
- They aren't 100% analogous, but I looked into the usage of the various "workshop" tags a while back and it was all over the place. industrial=machine_shop doesn't seem to be much better. To give a few examples, it's being used on a place that coats metal, somewhere that makes boat decks, a diesel engine repair shop, a few welding places, Etc. Etc. The point is, there's no common dominator and none of them are industrial machine shops. Or they are, and the meaning of "industrial machine shop" is just to ambiguous to be useful. Take your pick. Either way, the welders can clearly just be tagged as craft=welder. I'm sure there's a better for the diesel engine repair shop. So at the of the day what is the unique thing the industrial=machine_shop tag is being used for and what exactly is it's purpose outside of being an ambiguous catch all? And not in a "I define a machine shop as X and I'm always right so do it my way! Reeee!!!!" way, but in actual usage. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:46, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
- A industrial=machine shop does have a specific meaning. It's not a "shop" (retail store) but a workshop, it's not "a room where people use tools to make parts" as the whole point is that it uses a few specific types of machine to cut, grind, mill, drill and tap into the material to create the product. It's not a leisure pursuit, a hack or a handicraft; this is actual manufacturing with a workshop full of machinery churning out metal parts. And no, that's not the same as office=logistics as that's just a fancy buzzword for "trucking" or "hauling" along with a few closely-associated activities such as warehousing and freight forwarding - it serves to get products where they need to go, but it's not actual manufacturing. And no, changing it from manufacturing "machinery" to it manufacturing "industrial machinery" doesn't get this any closer to the actual concept of a industrial=machine shop being a workshop where a machinist uses metal-working machines to produce other things. So: