Talk:Wiki/Archive 11

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Per language feeds of wiki edits?

Hi, I am very new to OSM community and looked for RSS feeds of the activities written in my language on this wiki. It seems some languages have their namespace (ex ES) but my language(KO) is treated as a plain suffix of the title of the page. So technically it is possible to subscribe to the Spanish feed from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/api.php?action=feedrecentchanges&namespace=204, but not for Korean. I see adding a new namespace is not the good solution based on some articles. But because the API supports tag filtering, I would subscribe a tag if there is a certain tag. It will be good if someone creates new AbuseFilters and manage them to automatically add the tags to edits when the articles start with '<LANGUAGE_CODE>:'. --Megumi2103 (talk) 10:08, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

@Megumi2103: A few languages have their own namespaces for historical reasons, but language namespaces aren't being created anymore; instead, pages are being created in the main namespace with prefixes that look like namespaces. It is possible to create tags and assign them using abuse filters, similar to the one we created one to track edits to data item descriptions, but it gets throttled too easily to be useful. We'd also have to create one per language, which could be a performance issue. For now, one alternative is to search for pages containing the language code and sort by freshness, like this search for Korean. However, I don't think MediaWiki offers an RSS feed of Special:Search. Translatewiki.net uses the CleanChanges extension to provide an option to filter Special:RecentChanges by language code; the operations team is responsible for deciding which extensions to install. [1] – Minh Nguyễn 💬 00:57, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
Follow up Github issue: https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/797
It was closed with "The OWG requires extension requests come from wiki sysadmins. A wiki admin can open a new request for this extension if the wiki admins believe it should be added to the OSM wikis." Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 17:28, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
Do we mark this as resolved or continue doing more for this? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 19:18, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
Resolved: Making as not actionable - please comemnt if you have an idea for specific actions we can do Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:22, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Category:Pages unavailable in highway

Any idea what causes https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Pages_unavailable_in_highway&action=edit&redlink=1 to be filled and how to stop this?

Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:52, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

{{Langcode}} needs |Highway=en added. Andrew (talk) 12:03, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
Why adding such hack would be a good idea? Maybe better to stop this template from being triggered in the first place in Proposal namespace? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 05:25, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
@Mateusz Konieczny: These pages date to the days when some users thought all wiki pages are supposed to be namespaced using colons, just like tags in the database. This is how we got pages like Canada:British Columbia:Cowichan Valley Regional District and Canada:Ontario:Burlington/Public Transport/Analysis/Burlington Transit-Routes. But MediaWiki uses a slash for delimiting the parts of a subpage's name, so I've been renaming these pages as I come across them. Plus, categories mean that we usually don't even need to use subpages like in a file system. – Minh Nguyễn 💬 22:16, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
I am thinking about moving Highway:International equivalence to Highway - International equivalence or Highway/International equivalence. Is anyone opposed to such change? Or see a better name? Redirect would remain. Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 14:41, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
@Mateusz Konieczny: I'd suggest either "Highways/International equivalence" (as a subpage of "Highways") or "International highway classification equivalence" (which reads more naturally). While we're at it, {{Map Features:highway}} is another example of that mistaken colon namespacing, though it isn't breaking anything at the moment. – Minh Nguyễn 💬 01:46, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
In this case I'd prefer "International highway classification equivalence", but subpage style is OK, too. --Chris2map (talk) 08:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
Moved to International highway classification equivalence (redirect remains so things should not break) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 13:58, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
Yes, I am against it. No spaces are used between hyphens. And "International equivalence" is not a subpage of "Highway" (because there is no such page). maro21 20:12, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
Resolved: Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 18:25, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
On this Wiki, we have such a system that what comes before the colon is a language code that creates an additional namespace. So in the names of these templates there should be no colon. maro21 20:12, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
@Maro21: do you want mark this page as not resolved or would it be fine to archive it as resolved? (it seems that you are not protesting the move but I want to confirm) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 12:49, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
The category "Pages unavailable in highway" is empty now so I think the issue is resolved. I also fixed the last page there so it's empty now. Sorry for my late response before. maro21 20:11, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Abbreviations and misspellings in search

The page Abbreviations says that editors should enter the full name of any object. Indeed, for a newly built street the full name "Kerstingatan" (in Linköping, Sweden) has been entered, and searching for that name works fine. And searching for the abbreviation "Kersting." also finds it. Is this some magic in the search engine? However, searching for another common abbreviation "Kerstingat." gives no hit. So is there a list of abbreviations (g. = gatan) where we could add gat. = gatan? Further, adding an "s" in the middle would be a common misspelling (Kerstinsgatan) and could we make the search engine find the right street anyway? --LA2 (talk) 12:10, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

@LA2: Search engine used at osm.org is Nominatim and yes, it has some limited "magic". Its issue tracker may already have relevant issue there or maybe it would be worth reporting Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 12:48, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Does openstreetmap.org produce statistics on searches that people make? Can we find out how many search Stokholm vs Stockholm, Linköpingvägen vs Linköpingsvägen, Elmhult vs Älmhult vs Almhult? --LA2 (talk) 19:27, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
No, it doesn't. maro21 20:09, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Your question is beyond the scope of this Wiki. The proper place for this question would be: https://github.com/osm-search/Nominatim/issues maro21 20:09, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Resolved: Seems resolved as far as OSM Wiki is concerned Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 15:02, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

How one may create account while hit by "listed as an open proxy in the DNSBL"?

"Your IP address is listed as an open proxy in the DNSBL used by OpenStreetMap Wiki. You cannot create an account." - https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/is-a-separate-account-needed-to-edit-the-wiki/1549/3

What one may say to people affected by this? Can we waive such blocks? See https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/is-a-separate-account-needed-to-edit-the-wiki/1549/3

Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 22:31, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Now that we have switched to hCaptcha it will be interesting to see how it affects spam user sign-ups. If it works well I would be willing to disable the DNSBL for a trial period. -- Firefishy (talk) 12:29, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
@Firefishy: "got blocked trying to reset my password on the wiki. whats this about? "Your IP address is listed as an open proxy in the DNSBL used by OpenStreetMap Wiki."" reported on https://discord.com/channels/413070382636072960/704832584328151040/1005917189502664786 Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:33, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
next victim at https://discord.com/channels/413070382636072960/704832584328151040/1014546899384148008 Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 20:54, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
Next victim at https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/tagless-points-and-lines-in-greenbelt-md/97992/17 Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 17:35, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@Firefishy: Which BLs do we use? There is a victim with an IP not visibly on any open proxy dnsbls I have found around (it's on some spam related RBLs but they are not listing open proxies and most of them use wide range prefix blocks based on various "opinion based methods"). It's not simple to expect to have an ip removed from an unknown RBL... --grin ✎ 18:35, 17 April 2024 (UTC)


should be fixed by https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/commit/05d9e04459ff503314f7aa28c6fba5d751984921 and https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/commit/2c7afd04966d1845c405f24d317a53ff53089e47 Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Resolved: Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Wikibase file uses not shown on file pages (or in API)

Where a file is used by a Wikibase item, that use doesn't currently appear on the file's description page. For instance, File:Motorway-DE-A4-Aachen.JPG is used on highway=motorway (Q4980), but that item doesn't appear on the file description page under "File usage". This doesn't seem to be problem intrinsic to Wikibase, since it doesn't affect Wikidata. See, for instance d:File:30 Storeys Way, Cambridge (geograph 5521921).jpg, which correctly shows its use by d:Q26627430. Fixing this would help with my plan (above) to track this wiki's use of Commons files, because uses by Wikibase items also seem to be invisible to the MediaWiki API at the moment. --Ben Harris (talk) 10:24, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Worked around by having a bot generating galleries Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 07:27, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
Mateusz meant Wiki:Files used by data items.
Is there anything we should do here? Is linking to data items on file pages technically possible? maro21 20:47, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
Resolved: Current workaround seems acceptable, noone has actionable ideas to do it differently Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 13:54, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

How can I list tags with data items but have no OSM Wiki page?

Special:PrefixIndex/Item: is not helpful as it lists them as alphanumeric soup, not as tags.

Category:Redirects connected to a data item is not helpful as it lists only cases where redirect exists

I am also fine with API call (I guess that Special:PrefixIndex has matching one?), if there is nothing human readable

For bonus points, listing only data items with actual content (and skip blank entries like https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Item:Q8018 ) would be great

Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 11:34, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Using Sophox or Talk:Wiki#Install_the_WikibaseCirrusSearch_extension. maro21 20:50, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
And Special:ItemsWithoutSitelinks ? --Chris2map (talk) 20:30, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
Almost no tags there. Mostly groups. maro21 20:48, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
Yes, I had already once maintained some. Well, we are missing a list of data items that have a sitelink but the page does not exist. --Chris2map (talk) 08:05, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
What is a sitelink? maro21 15:13, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
A sitelink is the connection between a data item and a wiki page. It must be set manually (Special:SetSiteLink) when creating a new data item to establish this connection (since Special:ItemByTitle doesn't work). E.g. Special:SetSiteLink/Q6787/wiki. See "Set item sitelink" at bottom of main menu to the left on item pages. --Chris2map (talk) 16:49, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
I see. So in cases like this one Item:Q997 the bot set sitelink to Key:REF when creating the data item, although the page Key:REF doesn't exist. So we won't find such items without a Wiki page because they aren't listed at Special:ItemsWithoutSitelinks. maro21 18:04, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
Exactly! I think a LUA app or module could do the job and a Sophox/SPARQL query might be possible, too. But I don't know how to code them. --Chris2map (talk) 08:27, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
Resolved: Current workaround with Wiki:Files used by data items seems acceptable, noone has actionable ideas to do it differently Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 13:54, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Deprecated vs. obsolete tags

Key:gay has been recently made obsolete by a community vote and instances replaced with key:lgbtq. So this is no more, and it has been placed in Category:Key descriptions with status "obsolete". So far, so good. However, when you open the page, you have to read it very carefully to understand this.

In theory, obsolete map features are those which have been deleted and may not be used anymore, while deprecated features have a weaker prohibition, as spelled out in Template:Deprecated. However, Template:Deprecated glaringly shows a warning on the top of the page, but it is absent from Key:gay, which on first glance looks like a regular Wiki page for a common tag.

I wish we would treat deprecated and obsolete tag wiki pages with more consistency, featuring one or more:

  1. A glaring template such as Template:Deprecated on both; an argument such as {{Deprecated|obsolete=yes}} could be added to expand the usage to obsolete features as well. Or create a new Template:Obsolete?
  2. Make the prohibition of usage at Template:Deprecated stronger. Currently it reads "You are still free to continue to use or interpret this tag as you see fit since OpenStreetMap does not have “banned features”. Under no circumstances should you (semi-)automatically change “deprecated” tags to something else ", which is very permissive, and basically reads "but you may defy community decision as you see fit if you feel strongly about it". At least for positively obsolete features, this should be omitted (and I wish we had a stronger language for deprecated ones as well).

Thoughts? Duja (talk) 10:21, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm with you that there is hardly a comprehensible and documented dealing in the wiki with both of these status. @ 1) I'd like to omit the Template:Deprecated (see Template_talk:Deprecated#Integration_in_main_Template:Description) and therefore I wouldn't create any additional exclusive template like Template:Obsolete. If we could handle the deprecated status within Template:Description, we could do it the same way with status obsolete. – Additional idea: How about adding Template:Historic artifact start or something similar to tag pages with status obsolete? --Chris2map (talk) 15:45, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
Yep, Template:Historic artifact start is a good idea. Duja (talk) 17:13, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
Not every obsolete tag is deprecated. There are obsolete tags that went out of use long ago, but no one disapproved them or replaced them with anything. Obsolete status means "not in use anymore". It doesn't say if it can or shouldn't be used.
"Make the prohibition of usage at Template:Deprecated stronger" -> No, because it contradicts the sentence "OpenStreetMap does not have “banned features". maro21 19:25, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
While we technically do not have "banned features", there's a reason we deprecated those tags. Usually, because they're synonymous with a better defined or more widespread tag. But the current wording of the template almost encourages its further use.
I'm inclined to shorten that text and dryly point the reader to the deprecated tags page, which explains the situation in more detail. Duja (talk) 17:12, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
I think that deprecated tag should be marked as deprecated even it's usage equal to zero. As obsoleted may be marked cleaned tags from past imports, for example, because they may be (as minimum, in theory) used again, but not used currently. Something B (talk) 23:31, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
It seems that Key:gay is both deprecated (voted as redundant by community in favor of another tag) and obsolete (not used anymore). So it possibly needs to be placed in both categories. Duja (talk) 17:12, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
"Make the prohibition of usage at Template:Deprecated stronger" - that would not be a good idea, as in fact you are allowed to use them, see ATYL. If you want to place eye-biting banner it can be also placed manually, see Template:Ambox (|type= danger subvariant) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 13:52, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Seeems

Resolved: Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 02:50, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Item:Q5 (area)

Resolved

Item:Q5 has been adorned with unsightly "THIS ITEM IS OBSOLETE AND WILL BE DELETED SOON" since 2018 by User:M!dgard, and then this has been translated to other languages. While this data item is probably not much referenced, I don't see it as "obsolete", so I'd like to edit the text (and shorten the overlong description). Prominently, it appears in search results as the short description.
I'm not very familiar with data-item metalanguage, but shouldn't Q5 be somehow referenced from Property:P35 (applies to areas) or vice versa? Duja (talk) 10:39, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

It's obsolete because it's not used and now we use Property:P35. Data items don't exist in isolation and are used for something. maro21 21:35, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
Alright, it's not cross-referenced from other data items and properties -- but it still provides information backing the area Wiki page, such as short description, in multiple languages. The same issue exists with Item:Q3 (node) and Item:Q4 (way). If nobody is going to delete those anytime soon (and it's been 6 years since they were "tagged"), I'd like to restore them to a sane state. WRITING WARNINGS IN ALL CAPS is hardly a proper way to handle process issues. Duja (talk) 07:56, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
I agree that this text written in capital letters can be removed. Or you can ask the author of the change what he meant by it: link. maro21 22:11, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
I also agree. Those data items don't have an important use at the moment for me. But they aren't wrong and there is no need to remove them IMHO. --Chris2map (talk) 19:41, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
I edited Item:Q3, Item:Q4 and Item:Q5, removed ALL CAPS and shortened descriptions in all entered languages, to the best of my ability (I know the basics of European languages enough to remove the text, but hardly to expand). Please review. Marking this as resolved. Duja (talk) 12:02, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Request for comments: removing content from pages

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:company&action=history Could I have your comments please? maro21 15:12, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

At first, no matter how good or inappropriate the content of the page may be, there should be a page with at least the description box for that key company=*, IMHO. So I don't support the redirect. --Chris2map (talk) 17:47, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Resolved: The page has been edited, so the problem is solved. maro21 18:12, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Changing page language?

From this morning's watchlist of mine: 

21:30, 4 December 2024	(Language change log) أحمد الرخيص changed the language of About from English (en) [default] to Arabic (ar)

Indeed, About now displays RTL order in both display and edit modes, and I can't find a way to revert it. How is changing page language even possible - I can't find it anywhere in desktop UI? This looks like vandalism to me, rather than a newbie's misguided attempt; they also messed with the page Go Map!!. It seems to be enabled for non-admins only in mobile version, which opens a backdoor for abuse. Duja (talk) 08:58, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I changed it back to English. It is vandalism. The page language setting is free to every user, also in desktop view. See the "Page information" via the menu on the left. --Chris2map (talk) 16:23, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. The left sidebar is the last place I'd look for an option to actually change a page attribute. On English Wikipedia, such a page is available but read-only [2]; but then, it's English-only, and our wiki is multi-language, and our users have been using this feature constructively. Oh well, problem solved for now. Duja (talk) 13:16, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Resolved

Need a quick help

Resolved

Dear All, I'm trying to translate in Bulgarian language some tags in English such as: waste (general waste), ash, waste basket and so on. I'm afraid I'm not doing it right and need a quick hint how to make it. Please, have a look at my edits and fix the mess, if I involuntary did any. Many thanks, IvanovX128 (talk) 20:51, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

The parameters "key=" and "value=" on Key: and Tag: pages have always to be entered in English. Otherwise the templates behind the description box do not work as intended.
With data items most languages other than English don't set a "label" for keys and tags but leave it empty. Main reason is to keep it easy to recognize the original tag. But technical it is possible to enter a translation for the label. It's up to the Bulgarian comunity. However the labels of group data items are translated.
You may want to translate the group data item for "waste processing": waste processing (Q22141). --Chris2map (talk) 23:51, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Thank you IvanovX128 (talk) 15:37, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Please don't add labels for tags and keys in data items. Tags and keys are proper names, they are like variables, and they are untranslatable. maro21 18:52, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

online software and web software

Resolved

Is there a difference between online software and web software?
We have two categories: Category:Online software and Category:Web software. Can we combine these categories into one? maro21 21:12, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't really know. But I could imagine the following distinction: Online software is software that needs an active internet connection to run. Web software is software that runs or is used on a web page. --Chris2map (talk) 16:14, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
While that distinction could be made, I don't see it by perusing our categories. All listed entries seem to be web software (in the sense you specified). I support merging the categories: Category:Web software is much more populated, but it's inconsistent with Category:Online Services. I'm also not sure if a consistent distinction can be made between "services" and "software", so the latter is also a possible candidate for merging. Duja (talk) 11:52, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
@Duja: Regarding the current assignments in the wiki I'm completely with you. Many of the pages in Category:Web software are maps. In my opinion, maps are better categorized as "services" or perhaps "applications" rather than "software". This brings me to another fourth Category:Web services. But to work with the existing ones we could also use Category:Web software. --Chris2map (talk) 20:10, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
I was also thinking of merging Online softwarte into Web software - the latter is added by the {Software} template and is more populated. For example JOSM is of course an online software and for sure it's not a web software. But one can work in JOSM offline too, so it's offline software too;). I'll merge the categories next week.
I don't know what to do with Online Services, if we should keep it or merge it too. maro21 00:14, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
Category:Online Services currently states that "Online services are those which provide a data or control interface for other applications or systems. Often, applications which present an online service also present a user interface, meaning that there will be some overlap between members of this category and those in Category:Online software. However, the meanings of these two categories are quite distinct. "
While I may accept that "distinct", I cannot agree with that "quite" -- the line is blurry.
Anyway, as I see it, the best course of action would be to:
Duja (talk) 09:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
I support the proposal, thanks! maro21 23:24, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for the swift action. I renamed Category:Online Services into Category:Online services (including subcategory Category:Online services/translations) and recategorized all its contents. However, I cannot make {{Languages}} bar working properly, since it links back to old Category:Online Services - I'm not sure where it draws the data from? Duja (talk) 13:19, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
I marked it resolved because Category:Online Services wasn't the subject matter of this thread. But thanks for renaming! There is still an old name in {{Languages|Category:Online Services}} because there are still links or redirects to other language versions e.g. "Category:DE:Online Services" or "Category:ES:Online Services" -> Category:ES:Servicios en línea. However if you switch to {{Languages|Category:Online services}} you won't see any links. You can make new redirects to other language versions without moving those categories. maro21 18:54, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
Ah I see, it's pretty dumb -- it just links the same-named categories or articles with different language prefixes it finds, so it needs redirects in place. I expected it would pull a list from somewhere (e.g. a data item, but it does not exist for categories). Oh well, marking as resolved. Duja (talk) 19:45, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
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