User talk:Maro21

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Rozwiązywalne problemy

Jeśli maxweight jest szeroko stosowany na highway=elevetor to lepiej wspomnieć o tym na odpowiednich stronach a nie narzekać w https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Homonymous_keys&curid=245142&diff=2223516&oldid=2222134 że nie jest to wspomniane Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 19:23, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

saltern

Hi,
Yes, you are right but the rendering is bad (to explain my mystake), see here https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/38.41029/-8.56213
In the AreasTab, the rendering looks like natural=wetland.
I don't know where to find the good image, maybe you know where it is ? Fred73000 20:07, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

They look similar but they're different: File:Rendering-area-natural-marsh-osmarender.png, File:Natural wetland saltern.png. In the example above, https://osm.org/way/620731299, you can see the rendering for landuse=salt_pond because it overrides the other one. maro21 21:51, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

bare_rock

Hi, read this to understand why I had deleted that : https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/82965/categories-of-wiki-page-bare_rock (these 2 lines are useless and create a bug at the bottom of the page). Best regards Fred73000 20:13, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Ok, now I know why you removed the rendering. There is a bug but not on this page (both renderings are exactly the same) but in the script that compares image in the table and in the data item, which does not take into account minor differences like spaces ( ) and underscore (_) in the code. So for it File:Bare_rock.png and File:Bare rock.png were different images... In the future you can change underscores to spaces to fix it. maro21 21:51, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
Ok, but if you look at the same page in German https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:natural%3Dbare_rock, a rendering is visible on the right side even if there is no rendering in the ValueDescription. So why to add these 2 lines ? It was the same for the polish page, you have deleted my changes, I have no problem with that but I don't understand why because the result page is exactely the same. I know that on some pages (wetland=marsh for example) we need to add something otherwise there is no rendering but for bare_rock it looks like there is a default rendering (the official one I think) so these 2 lines seems useless to me (but maybe I'm wrong that why I ask you). Best regards Fred73000 (talk) 20:41, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Yes, on the German version there is no rendering in the code because it's fetched from the data item.
This is a recent change which I've requested, see Template_talk:Description#Fetch_osmcarto-rendering_from_Data_Items. I can partially agree with you that they are no needed on the German version, but they have to be in the English version (because English is the official documentation). But sometimes they are needed, because currently there is no possibility to set the image size otherwise. Technically you can even leave only {{ValueDescription}} in the code and this page will look the same. maro21 21:55, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

saltern, fix

Sorry, I didn't see that in my last example there were the tags landuse=salt_pond and it is why we have a rendering !
Here a better example with only the 2 tags :
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/637894389#map=19/37.22496/-7.43435
You can see that wetland=saltern has no rendering, only natural=wetland has (see https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/561993366#map=19/37.55599/-5.05202)

If you are agree with that, we should delete the line in AreasTab
Best regards Fred73000 21:00, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

They look similar but they're different: File:Rendering-area-natural-marsh-osmarender.png, File:Natural wetland saltern.png. maro21 21:51, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
Oh, you may be right, wetland=saltern doesn't have a separate rendering:
They don't have a background color, only the filling pattern so the image File:Rendering-area-natural-marsh-osmarender.png is transparent, with no background color, while File:Natural wetland saltern.png is on the basic land color - but in most cases this is how we see it on the map.
The same image on different background colors:
Rendering-area-natural-marsh-osmarender.png Rendering-area-natural-marsh-osmarender.png Rendering-area-natural-marsh-osmarender.png Rendering-area-natural-marsh-osmarender.png
no bg color bare ground grass color pitch color
Here is for example natural=wetland on the green background: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/45.81223/8.62278
So you're right and it looks like wetland=saltern doesn't have a separate rendering, so I will unlink this image. maro21 22:19, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

saltmarsh

Hi, on the wiki for saltmarsh https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:wetland%3Dsaltmarsh there are 2 rendering (at highest levels). The first one is visible here https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/255075921. But in the AreasTab, only the second one (with water, for example when the area is outside the coastline https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/726933999#map=19/53.41522/0.21395) is present. I don't know if we need to add the first one or replace the one currently in the table. Fred73000 (talk) 21:05, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

As stated in the table, saltmarsh is an overlay, so in theory it can be on hundreds of different backgrounds. I don't think that we should add there more variants. maro21 21:56, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for all your answers (this subject and the others) Fred73000 (talk) 15:42, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

links to french pages

Hi, I just fix a lot of things in the french wiki page for cuisine https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:cuisine. But I have a (small) problem, maybe you can help me : when someone wants to follow a link to a value with a french translation (for example coffee_shop), the link goes to the english version. In the french page for natural https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Key:natural, the links work, they go to french pages when there is one (for grassland for example, in the description table but not in the summary table). I don't know why it doesn't work the same. Best regards Fred73000 (talk) 21:01, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Oh, good question. I looked at it and it's complicated. There are no correct links on the French version of the template Template:FR:Map Features:Cuisine (ethnicity) because it's based on the English version Template:Map Features:Cuisine (ethnicity) which don't have correct links either. Correct link to a tag page is for example {{Tag|amenity|school}}, not [[Tag:amenity=school]] because the first one will change to a specific language version if that pages exists. I don't quite understand how this group of templates are built. I don't like them because of that either. These templates are very badly done and there is form over content, hard to edit and translate. For me it's a mess without documentation. So you can either: correct the English version of the template, ask someone to do it or write independent French version. In the source there should be for example {{Tag|cuisine|french}} instead of [[Tag:cuisine=french]] maro21 21:41, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
It did't work : when we write {{Tag|amenity|school}}, the result is "amenity=school", when we write [[Tag:amenity=school]] the result is "school" and the links are the same (to english only). But I looked at the page for buildings and I found the answer : we need to add LL|1= in the beginning of the tag or the key, for example {{LL|1=Tag:building=apartments}} or {{LL|1=Key:building}}. I think LL is for Language. I tried with coffee_shop and it works. I will change all now. But there is still a mystery : there is no LL|1= in the page for natural but links to languages work, it's very strange. Best regards Fred73000 (talk) 18:28, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
It works, see my edit. maro21 22:02, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Removal for wrong redirection links

Creating local pages makes sense.

Removing fake localized local pages makes sense.

But marking such pages for deletion doesn't make any, does it?

Now if you select an airport on osm.org using a French locale, you don't come to the misleading redirect but to a even worse "marked for deletion page", making a translation and the access to the English page harder. Can you please simple delete such pages (or wait just a few days for reaction)? Here https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Tag:aeroway=aerodrome?uselang=fr. Thanks in advance. --Nospam2005 (talk) 15:31, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for feedback. In the future I will place {delete} template below REDIRECT, so it can be still a working redirect and be nominated for deletion at the same time. maro21 22:07, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
You're welcome. Can you please delete https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Tag:aeroway%3Daerodrome? Now it works as redirect, so we can't translate the page.
I don't see any added value by not deleting the wrong link. As normal user I can't translate the English page. Of course I could translate, put it temporary on my user space and ask an administrator to replace the redirection by this content. But only a few people would know they can to that.
Pinging the creator of the wrong link is probably the fastest way to deal with wrong links. Well it way be creator dependent ;-).--Nospam2005 (talk) 20:32, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
I can't delete because I'm not an admin :).
That's why I reported that page for deletion - such redirects are useless. If there is no page in a given language, a link will guide to the English article (for example from the main osm website).
If you want to create a French translation, you can just edit this page. maro21 20:42, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

plastic_bottle_things

Z dosłownie 11 to chyba lepiej byłoby po prostu przetagować to rzadsze :) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:21, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Sam nie wiem, które określenie po angielsku jest lepsze. Na Wikipedii w:Bottle cap są podane jako równorzędne, ale nie sprawdzałem częstości użycia. A i do tych form też mam wątpliwości, bo jest jeszcze np. w:Screw cap. W każdym razie są dwa tagi (a nawet więcej), a żaden nie ma statusu "deprecated", więc żaden nie jest lepszy lub gorszy. maro21 21:52, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

delete

Hej, jak plik ma iść do skasowania jako dubel to trzeba go też przelinkować.

Jak chcesz zaznaczyć jako zastępowalny to użyj {{Superseded image}}

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=File:Beverages_OSM.png&diff=2301445&oldid=2297123

Zerkniesz do innych plików które mogą też mieć ten problem? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 14:28, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Ale podlinkowałem w tych plikach link do dyskusji, gdzie czekam, żeby wrzucający to poprawił. maro21 21:23, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Proposed features/Add Translate extension to Wiki

Proposed features/Add Translate extension to Wiki - może cię interesować, to powtórka https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Wiki#Add_Translate_Extension gdzie komentowałeś Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:03, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Widziałem, ale dzięki za przypomnienie. Dużo też mam do napisania w tym temacie, ale to wymaga czasu... maro21 21:54, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

"Deprecated" tag change to "ValueDescription"

Hi Maro21, I see you changed one of the pages I created from "Deprecated" tag to "ValueDescription" (I have taken the values from the English one). I see that the data item contains the deprecation information, therefore it is better. However, I want to know if all "deprecated" tags should be changed to what the Data item contains. Do you have a Wiki page about this page?

This is the page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=ES%3ATag%3Ahealthcare%3Dcommunity_health_worker&type=revision&diff=2347286&oldid=2341939

In fact, I am creating missing pages in Spanish, and I want to do the correct thing. AngocA (talk) 16:05, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

We don't have a Wiki page on how to write pages about deprecated tags. In my opinion the {Deprecated} template is buggy and doesn't offer much except adding a red handle graphic. This template doesn't allow to add other parameters that are in {ValueDescription} even though it is based on it. Nobody has fixed this yet, so I think it should not be used. But this is my opinion, you can use which template you want.
When you create a page in Spanish, I suggest to use a minor version of ValueDescription template, for example:
{{ValueDescription
 |key = <!-- mandatory -->
 |value = <!-- mandatory -->
 |image = <!-- add only if different from the English one -->
 |description = <!-- mandatory -->
 |osmcarto-rendering = 
 |osmcarto-rendering-size = 
}}
Of course without <!-- ... --> texts.
I think it's better not to add parameters like status, onNode, onWay, onArea, onRelation on pages in languages other than English, because when they change in the English version, in other language versions the old value will be left and there will be discrepancy between versions. And if you don't add them, they will be taken from data items and they will be the same in all language versions. This is a step into the future in my opinion. |wikidata= parameter has been removed from these templates, so remember not to copy it. maro21 17:57, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
Ok, I understand your point of view about ValueDescription instead of the Deprecated tag. I share your vision on it and will do it on the next Deprecated key pages I found.
However, regarding the minor version for ValueDescription in other languages, I am not sure. I read something about this in the previous weeklyOSM, about creating minor versions of ValueDescription that could affect TagInfo: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MarcoR/diary/399342
I understand your view about overriding English elements, especially when they change in English and are not updated in other languages. But what about data consumers?
I give you one example: in the Map features in Spanish - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Objetos_del_mapa, if the ValueDescription does not have an explicit image, it won't show any on that list, even if it is in the English version. In fact, we already migrated this page and subpages to TagList tag, which is our situation.
Finally, I have found this situation only for the image and for the description. I do not know anything about onNode, onWay or any other property, so I am listening advises to improve the Spanish pages. AngocA (talk) 18:29, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Thanks for the link.

Data Items were launched for exactly such applications as Taginfo to fetch the data from data items not mining them from infoboxes.

> Here is a sorted list of the OSM Wiki pages (tags or key related) which contain the text “{KeyDescription}” or “{TagDescription}”:

You see, I'm not the only one who thought about it.

Question: do more people browse the documentation on the Wiki, or the Wiki documentation parsed by Taginfo? I don't know, but my guess is that 90% of those people are browsing the Wiki rather than the "Wiki" tab on Taginfo.

Example:
- when you copy "|onWay = no" to the Spanish version and someone changes it in the English version and in the data item after discussion that mapping as a line is also allowed, the Spanish version will be not up to date and Spanish speakers won't map the feature as a line.
- when you don't copy "|onWay = no" to the Spanish version and someone changes it in the English version and the data item, the Spanish version will be up to date but the only disadvantage will be that Taginfo's "Wiki" tab will show an empty table in the Spanish row. But the documentation of tags is on the Wiki, Taginfo is only the external application. I don't know what such table is for. It was designed where there were no data items, probably for comparing language versions and looking for discrepancies. But only the English version is the official documentation, so why someone needs information about mapping on nodes and lines in Italian on Taginfo? These are the same regardless of language version. The description is not shown here, that's why I suggest to always add "|description=" in other languages versions too. In the diary there was an example about pure {ValueDescription} template with no parameters, but I suggest to add some, and mandatory "description".

The #wiki bookmark on Taginfo is rather for Wiki editors to look for discrepancies, not for end users.

In my proposal no data is lost, the taginfo still shows if you can map as a node or line but in the English line.

It's the Taginfo that should follow progress, not stand still. https://github.com/taginfo/taginfo/issues/248 has been open for four years, so it has not been rejected, but it is on the to-do list.

The website https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/highway=residential#wiki perfectly shows that adding e.g. status information in other language versions leads to such ridiculous situations that depending on the language version, there are as many as 3 different statuses! maro21 20:20, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Taginfo author and maintainer consider wikibase items as "a failed experiment" ( https://github.com/taginfo/taginfo/issues/263#issuecomment-1140213050 ) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 21:32, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
The ticket was closed some hours ago!! It seems tagInfo will always have this incompatibility. :( AngocA (talk) 13:50, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
For what it's worth I do agree that data items are a mess ... it doesn't make any sense to use random numbers as IDs when key names & tag values already create a unique (and human-friendly!) namespace/identifier. --Push-f (talk) 14:22, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi Maro, I have a question, if we decide to just have the values you indicated, then we will not need all the subpages from this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Data_item_issues, especially the ones saying "Not copied onArea", onNode, onRelation, status, etc. In fact, I am creating many missing pages for keys and values in Spanish, and I am not adding these tags, but then, they are appearing here. Following your idea, may I ignore them? AngocA (talk) 05:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Currently there are no rules about it, you can only gather opinions from different people. Mine is that you will need these categories to find discrepancies between the English version and the data item. Assuming that the English version has all the fields filled in the infobox and the other language versions have only some fields filled in.
Could you give an example of such Spanish page? If you don't copy e.g "onNode=", the page will not appear in the category "Category:Mismatched onNode". maro21 16:55, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

religie vs religia

In Data items (Q4692) you translated "religion" as "religie". But the Category page Religion is translated as Religia. Which version of the translation is correct? -- Lenochod (talk) 10:47, 17. February 2023 (UTC)

Both are equally correct. I translated "religie" (plural) because most group names are in plural. So I standardized the translations and changed it to "religia". maro21 20:14, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

change of propsal

Hello, I see the edit about the proposal camp_site=camp_pitch but I don't understand it. the proposal has not changed (and shouldn't be changed), the page documents what was proposed when it was proposed, normally you clearly add a banner to say that this is historical content not to be changed and refer to the current version outside of the proposals, right? Marc marc (talk) 17:44, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

The current documentation of the tag camp_site=camp_pitch is in Tag:camp_site=camp_pitch and should not be in two places because it may confuse users. Both of these articles before my edits had conflicting information in the infobox: [1] [2]
The {ValueDescription} template is used to document existing tags or keys and shouldn't be used on Proposals.
My edit didn't remove any information from the proposal, unless you mean the photo of the tent. But I have already restored the photo.
So my edit only removed the template and this page from 27 categories: Pages with ignored display titles | Pages unavailable in German | Pages unavailable in Spanish | Pages unavailable in French | Pages unavailable in Italian | Pages unavailable in Dutch | Pages unavailable in Japanese | Mismatched description in default namespace | Mismatched description | Mismatched status in default namespace | Mismatched status | Not copied statuslink | Mismatched image in default namespace | Mismatched image | Item with no description in language CS | Item with no description in language JA | Item with no description in language ES | Item with no description in language FR | Item with no description in language PT | Item with no description in language IT | Item with no description in language UK | Item with no description in language PL | Item with no description in language FI | Item with no description in language NL | Item with no description in language HU | Item with no description in language ZH-HANS | Item with no description in language ZH-HANT. maro21 21:55, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

osmcarto-rendering parameter needing to be an image

The wiki will display non-images fine, but other tools (most prominently, taginfo) will choke (and might even ignore the rest of the page) on anything but an image. I won't revert further, but I hope you'll be willing to accommodate the limitations of valuable external tools, and not insist on un-supported values for those parameters. JesseFW (talk) 22:42, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Non-images are correct, see template documentation. maro21 22:48, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
Thanks! I see that was added by User:Verdy p back in 2016, so it's certainly old enough that taginfo should be updated to handle it. I'll make a ticket and see about providing a fix. JesseFW (talk) 23:34, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
Where did you see renderings on Taginfo? There are only photos from the "image=" parameter. maro21 19:20, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Hm, I'm not seeing where it uses that field, either. But it warns about non-images here: Taginfo/Parsing_the_Wiki. It may be intended for a future feature. JesseFW (talk) 21:51, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
This Wiki page was last updated 7 years ago... A lot of things have changed. For example "lang" or "wikidata" parameters are no longer used. It seems to parse more than is shown in taginfo. "Some of these problems are taginfos fault, some should be fixed in the wiki." - it's just a validator, doesn't mean it's infallible. E.g. it reports "gcf" as an incorrect language code. maro21 22:29, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

nativekey i nativevalue

Cześć, dlaczego usunąłeś tutaj kiedyś parametry szablonu nativekey i nativevalue? Problem był w ich zawartości, czy w ogóle starasz się unikać polskich wersji? Pytam bo już prawie je dodałem w takim samym brzmieniu jak wcześniej wycofałeś. Kubahaha (talk) 13:49, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Usuwam ten parametr z szablonu, bo uważam że to nic nie wnosi. "railway=level_crossing" czy jakikolwiek inny tag to nazwa własna, nie odmienia się i nie tłumaczy na polski. Tłumaczenia te są do niczego niepotrzebne i prowadzą czasami do takich dziwolągów jak "usługa = dostęp awaryjny w przypadku tagu service=emergency_access. To, co znaczy dany tag, powinno się znaleźć w opisie (description). maro21 21:24, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

tagowanie stadionów jako punkt/obszar

Cześć, to znowu ja. Widziałem, że ostatnio usunąłeś sporo oznaczeń przy tagach onNode/onArea/... - przyznam, że nie rozumiem dlaczego, np. dla stadionu. Możliwe że kiedyś je dodałem i nie wiem co tu jest źle. Kubahaha (talk) 22:45, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Porządkowałem kategorię Category:Mismatched onRelation i w przypadku tego tagu w data item była stara wartość (że można używać na relacjach), co poprawiłem w data item, ale najpierw edytowałem artykuł i zauważyłem, że w nim nie było błędu, dopiero potem zauważyłem, że błąd jest w data item.
Moja edycja, o której piszesz nic nie zmieniła dla czytelnika - onNode i pozostałe mają takie same wartości przed zmianą i po niej. Ogólnie to te parametry są zbędne w artykułach po polsku (i innych tłumaczeniach z wyjątkiem angielskiego), o ile istnieje data item. Bo w przypadku zmiany, np. statusu, który dość często się zmienia, wymaga to poprawy we wszystkich tłumaczeniach. A brak tego parametru w infoboksie sprawia, że wystarczy poprawić tylko w artykule po angielsku i w data item. I nie dodaję parametrów takich jak "status", "onNode"-"onRelation" do nowo tworzonych stron, bo te parametry nie zależą od wersji językowej i są stałe dla tagu. Trzymanie tego w każdej wersji językowej nie ma sensu, bo z czasem te informacje ulegają zmianie i w różnych wersjach językowych są sprzeczne informacje. A ta Wiki nie ma na tylu aktywnych edytorów ani żadnych botów, którzy by na bieżąco to poprawiali. maro21 20:40, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
czyli jeżeli nie będzie to wypełnione, to na stronie tagu wyświetlają się dane z data item? Poprawiałem/dodawałem ostatnio TemplateData dla różnych szablonów, w takim razie chyba warto to oznaczyć jako deprecated - a przynajmniej wspomnieć w opisie, mogę to zrobić w wolnej chwili. A swoją drogą jak to powinno się oznaczać - w przypadku relacji multipolygon? onArea=yes, a onRelation? Dzięki za odpowiedź, dopytuję, bo zacząłem ostatnio trochę więcej edytować i nie chcę na przemian zmieniać tego samego. Kubahaha (talk) 21:23, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Tak. Co oznaczyć jako deprecated? Deprecated to status tagów i kluczy. Multipolygon jest traktowany jako Area w tym przypadku. Nie jest to nigdzie wspomniane oficjalnie, ale powinno (była o tym mowa w dyskusjach, opisach zmian lub źródłach artykułów), dopiszę sobie na listę, żeby to dodać. maro21 23:13, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Oznaczyć parametry szablonu Wiki w TemplateData jako deprecated - jeśli nikt mnie nie ubiegnie to zrobię to kiedyś, nie wiem tylko czy da się to ustawić zależnie od wersji językowej, ale to będę jeszcze próbował coś wymyślić. Pzdr! Kubahaha (talk) 11:31, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
Ale parametry są w porządku. Pisałem tylko, że są zbędne w innych wersjach językowych niż angielski, bo dokładają niepotrzebnie pracy edytorom. maro21 20:21, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Data item image rank setting

Hi maro, thanks for adding properties to data items. A minor hint i can give you regarding the P28-image parameter. There is an additional switch for the "rank" available. The standard "untouched" rank is "normal" see an example of one of your editings adding of P28 to data item Q22299 (informal=yes). On the Data Items page there is an description (last table column) for P28 "Make sure to set Preferred rank Preferred rank status for the default image." So far i understand the preferred rank setting (at least to one of the images) is also needed for the iD editor to display the pictures in the tag-info-area, see Power=transformer.png. You could double check this e.g. by using this test object with informal=yes tag in iD:.--MalgiK (talk) 11:35, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Oh, yea, I always forget about it! Thanks! maro21 12:27, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
Welcome - thanks for updating. --MalgiK (talk) 08:20, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Your change on wiki page Tag:emergency=disaster response

Hi Maro21,

I noticed you edited added the parameters of the ValueDesciption-Template of Tag:emergency=disaster_response. When rewriting the page I left the parameters of the template empty on pourpose so that the wiki page is automatically synchronised with the corresponding data item. As far as I can tell you did not change anything visible on the wiki page. Why did you add these parameters? Wouldn't it be better to save the data only once so that there can't be mismatches? --Os-emmer (talk) 17:44, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

It is common practice that the English version of the documentation of tags and keys is in the article, and the data item is just a copy. Other language versions may be different, where some of the data may be taken from data items.
We have tracking categories
which should be empty. This is how I found Tag:emergency=disaster_response. maro21 17:58, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Change of data item Q835 xmas:feature

Hi, I just saw your change of xmas:feature (Q835) and didn't understand why you removed this. The German wiki page documents the usage on areas and even has different usages per paragraph, so for example xmas:feature=market can explicitly be used on areas. The English wiki page doesn't prohibit this and area here is an example where an area is useful. --Henry572 (talk) 22:39, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Good point, thanks for the remark. Actually, mapping as an area should be allowed. So I corrected in the English version. It looks like the German documentation was more developed. maro21 22:55, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Deletion request for automatically created Babel categories

Hi, you requested the deletion of many automatically created Babel categories such as Category:User asw. I do not think it is worth the effort to delete those categories. I am not even sure if the Babel extension will create them again if users add the language boxes to their user pages. --Tigerfell This user is member of the wiki team of OSM (Let's talk) 08:34, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I did. I nominated them for deletion because they are empty, and I believe that there should be no empty categories, because in their thicket it is difficult to navigate and distract from what is important. The bot created them because it was probably the case that someone added some language to their user page and then corrected or removed it. I also suppose the bot will create them again if someone adds a language to the Babel template, but maybe it won't and the category will stand empty for decades to come? Or maybe it will create, but it will no longer be empty? I came across these while browsing Special:UncategorizedCategories, where there was previously a very long list. And that's why I submitted the aforementioned categories for deletion, to make it easier to categorize the others. I understand that for you it might be an effort and you don't want to remove them, because it's tedious work. For me it wouldn't be, but I don't have administrative rights. maro21 21:35, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Your edits

We started discussing issues in Talk:key:phone. It applies to all of your edits. Should I copy & paste it here? Please keep the discussion at a single place. Bkil (talk) 18:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

I know we are discussing. There still my questions without your answers. maro21 19:09, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

about your edits

The wiki edit summary must include exactly what you change on a given article Bkil (talk) 07:18, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

I see that you wrote about my edits, saying that I'm lying. I'll honestly admit that I felt surprised and concerned when I read that, because for me transparency in communication is important. I really care that all the information I provide is accurate and reliable. Could you provide more details or examples that raise your concerns? I would like to understand your concerns and, if possible, clarify any misunderstandings. I'm asking you to make substantive statements - ones that refer to facts or specific parts of articles, not to a person, assessments and judgments. Telling someone that they are lying is besmirching and doesn't build a relationship, it only provokes the other person and makes them feel the need to defend themselves. When such a situation occurs, substantive discussion becomes very difficult. I'd also like to recommend very cool articles that can improve communication: Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot. I'm open to dialogue and would be happy to discuss this further so that we can work together to improve the Wiki. maro21 21:01, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
@Bkil: in case of complaining about problem with specific edit you should link such problematic edit. As is, this is insult without an explanation. And in addition, being careless, mistaken, typoining or fatfingering is also possibility. I would not jump to "lying" as solution unless something indicates this Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 18:45, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Please do not specify tag as deprecated without consensus (But I have already started a gathering of consensus for you)

Please don't specify a tag as deprecated without consensus, as you did with Key:construction_end_expected.

As a result, I have started this discussion for you. Ewrt1 (talk) 01:59, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Why? In cases it's an obvious synynom many Wiki editors change status. maro21 15:25, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Station or Halt graphic

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Station-or-halt.svg https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:railway%3Dstation&oldid=2643911 What evidence do you have that this theory for determining the difference between a railway station or a halt is widely held? --DaveF63 (talk) 21:02, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't have evidence. I just linked this image in the article. Is it no longer up to date? maro21 15:25, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Article layout - title ("Possible tagging errors" / "See also") order

Hi Maro21, i do not agree to the order first "See also" and second "Possible tagging errors" on article pages. "See also" seems a general title of the entire wiki concept for writing articles, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Layout#Standard_appendices_and_footers which is part of the different footer titles (See also / References / External links). This is also used for articles which are not for tags and keys pages. The section "Possible tagging errors" is mainly used on tag and key descripion pages and is for my understand no footer. It is part of the main article, so it should not be placed below the footer "See also". Please revert your changes on building:levels=*: see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:building:levels&oldid=prev&diff=2700838 --MalgiK (talk) 16:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion, "See also" is more important because there are links to similar tags and other articles and more people will use it than "Possible tagging mistakes", which will be used by a smaller group of people, and because this section is often long and can take up a lot of space. I wouldn't refer to Wikipedia, because their rules don't apply to us, and they don't have a "Possible tagging mistakes" section. I also referred to the fact that in other articles "Possible tagging mistakes" are at the end, examples:
As I write this, in these articles the "See also" section is before the "Possible tagging mistakes" section.
Maybe write a thread on Talk:Wiki to get more people to comment, because two of us won't settle this. maro21 21:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Tag:industrial=electrical

hi, please, visit Talk:Tag:industrial=electrical -- Phd0 (talk) 21:00, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Links to OpenStreetMap Americana in various languages

Hi, thanks for linking to OSM Americana from each of the localized name key pages. OSM Americana recently moved to a dedicated domain, but unfortunately, GitHub Pages is unable to redirect from the old site to the new one. We've cleaned up all the links to the old site on this wiki except for the ones you added to the name:*=* key pages. Would you be able to help replace https://zelonewolf.github.io/openstreetmap-americana/ with https://americanamap.org/? You could do it manually or write a bot using pywikibot or AutoWikiBrowser. Let me know if you need bot permissions. Thanks! – Minh Nguyễn 💬 19:05, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Oh, too bad that links don't work anymore. I don't have a bot so I won't do it automatically. Maybe step by step or one day I will fix it or someone else can run a bot. maro21 19:54, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
If you do go through this manually, I highly recommend implementing a template rather than plaintext so we can save work if we want to change it again in the future. Quincylvania (talk) 20:10, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
368 pages to correct. LIST 1, LIST 2. Work in progress. maro21 12:23, 12 October 2024 (UTC)
I came across this and I guess it might be clever to create a template {{OSM Americana URL}} with the URL and place that one on all of the name:* pages? So if it changes (which probably won't happen again), it can be updated in one place. --Chris2map (talk) 13:22, 12 October 2024 (UTC)
Links to other websites may also change. I also don't think the link will change again because OSM Americana is already on its own domain. Excessive templating is not good for editors. maro21 11:38, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
Done. maro21 20:53, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Cannabis Social Clubs

You have reverted my change, but in Germany, consumption at these clubs is forbidden. Discostu36 (talk) 21:16, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

I just copied the description to the data item. The applicable documentation for the tag is in Tag:club=cannabis. Data item is just a copy of what is in the article. If you want to change the description - change it in the article. And preferably also in the data item, because currently we don't have a bot that will do it. Both descriptions should be the same. maro21 13:36, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks, I hope I've now done it correctly. Discostu36 (talk) 11:22, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
But why do we maintain double descriptions? It is exactly the point of data items to centralize all metadata in one place. If the infobox template description is empty, it will display the information from the data item. Duja (talk) 10:25, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

translation with different page names

Hello maro, translations with different page names do not need to display 2 language banners example with https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Relations/Les_relations_ne_sont_pas_des_cat%C3%A9gories Regards, Marc marc (talk)

Then feel free to move all pages under one name. I'm not "Marco", please call me by my nickname. maro21 14:00, 15 September 2024 (UTC)
Sorry for the typo in your nickname.
I had just moved all the pages under one name, isn't it ? Marc marc (talk)
I don't see any changes. maro21 15:21, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
I only see one language banner with all the languages with my version before our revert, isn't it ? Marc marc (talk)
Please take a look at the history of Relations are not categories: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Relations_are_not_categories&action=history Because I still don't know what you want to communicate. maro21 21:01, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
I want to communicate that I doesn't see the issue you see after my fix, issue that motive your revert, so if nobody see it, cancel you revert. if the issue is still there, please explain the issue Marc marc (talk)
On August 19, 2021 Minh Nguyen moved the page under the new name. But didn't move pages in other languages. In the article the template {{Languages}} was left but that caused that there were no links to articles in other languages. On November 26, 2022 a Chinese version of the article was created. And it was the only translation under the new name. I noticed that there is no link to the Polish version that I had recently edited, that's why I added the missing template. maro21 21:50, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

find and/or delete link from FR to EN page

At least 2 contributors have added several links for the FR page to the EN page, for example https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=FR:Tag:religion%3Dbuddhist&oldid=1376943 These links give the impression that there is a translation when there isn't, making it more difficult to detect untranslated pages. Is it possible to find and/or delete links other than by chance or by searching user by user for new pages with a link relating to a tag ? Marc marc (talk)

I agree with you. I don't like such links either because they are misleading.
Here you can find all redirects in "FR:" namespace: link. maro21 23:43, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

"Discussion" page "chronological" (and complete ?)

Hi, just for your info, some of my comments regarding a standardisation on the shop=car discussion page have been deleted, see the history of that page. Would you probably also like to correct that ? Rtfm (talk) 16:40, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Fixed. maro21 20:19, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

–

Is it really a good idea to change typical and typable - into weird and untypeable – ?

See say https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:highway%3Dsecondary&curid=21233&diff=2760416&oldid=2645246

It just results in inconsistencies and pointlessly weird styling. (yes, I know that in some style manuals various pedantic distinctions between these and other are wanted - dashes, m-dashes etc)

Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:59, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it is a good idea. No space is put on two sides of a hyphen. Here you can find more information about in which situations hyphens are used. maro21 16:38, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
I see no reason to follow Wikipedia Manual of Style and have this weird characters on OSM Wiki pages Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 17:36, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
Can you provide a link to another manual that advises using spaces between hyphens? maro21 17:42, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
No, though I am not sure how it is connected to preferring to use "-" over dashes/emdashes/hyphens etc. Why spaces between hyphens would be relevant here? In fact, in which case you would have two hyphens next to each other, with space or not? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 00:39, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
In short: hyphen is a character that connects words. And dash is a punctuation mark which is used to separate parts of a sentence. That's it in a nutshell, you can find more information in the link I mentioned above. maro21 22:40, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
Being a fellow pedant, a dash is just... nicer, and more professional. It's not just Wikipedia's manual of style, it's something you will encounter in any proofread text. Spaces around the dash indicate that it's used as an interpunction symbol between words, rather that a conjunction within compound words; MS Word will typically correct an " - " into a " – ". It's rather easy to input from the "Symbols" group in the Special Characters toolbar.
It's not something I'd like to force other users into adopting, but then, I don't appreciate a pedantic edit being reverted just because we should be "simpler" at all cost. Duja (talk) 17:39, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Removing the Deprecation info box from cycleway=opposite_share_busway feels arbitrary.

Basically, the other cycleway=opposite tags have the same info box. Actually, virtually every deprecated tag has both this sort of info box. I have no idea what makes cycleway=opposite_share_busway so special that it shouldn't have this box in it. --ManuelB701 08:15, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

I removed the {{Deprecated}} template because it's broken - one can't set the correct description then. I have now added {{Deprecated feature}} so now it is as you wanted. maro21 23:09, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
Hm... curious to see two separate templates which doesn't make me happy about this situation but I'm at least satisfied with it now. --ManuelB701 (talk) 09:56, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
Shall we simply redirect {{Deprecated}} to {{Deprecated feature}}? Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Deprecated shows almost 1000 usages -- are they all broken? Duja (talk) 07:41, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
No. It's not that simple. These are different templates - one is included in the other. Some of the descriptions are messed up. I wrote about this on the template's discussion page. maro21 20:24, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Polish proposal - expressways as highway=motorway

Cześć, nie wiem czy widziałeś że zabieram się do zorganizowania głosowania na temat zmiany schematu tagowania dróg ekspresowych w Polsce. Jak twoim zdaniem powinna wyglądać strona na Wiki dot. głosowania? Korzystać z szablonu propozycji? Strona powinna nazywać się z prefiksem pl: albo proposal:? Póki co napisałem tyle, ale zamierzam jeszcze zmienić zawartość: Pl:Oznaczanie dróg ekspresowych jako highway=motorway Kubahaha (talk) 16:21, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Wygląda dobrze. Jeśli to dotyczy tylko Polski to nie musi być w Proposal. Nazwa strony jest ok. Przydałyby się jeszcze kategorie. maro21 17:21, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
Dzięki! Kubahaha (talk) 18:25, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

OsmHydrant

Yesterday, I removed the link to OsmHydrant from Pl:Tag:emergency=fire_hydrant. You reverted my change today and claim that the app works. I would like to explain in more detail why I removed the app from that wiki page and many others: The app is not maintained any more. It has not been upgraded to OAuth2. Therefore no login with OSM is possible any more, no hydrants can be added any more. I would like to ask you to revert your revert. --Nakaner (talk) 20:10, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

There is a map with hydrants and fire stations. I didn't claim that the app works - I changed the description and it doesn't say that one can add hydrants. It's been only few months that adding doesn't work and I hope they'll fix it soon. But the website is working. The name of the section is "Rendering", not "Editing hydrants". For example a hydrant added yesterday is on their map: https://www.osmhydrant.org/pl/#zoom=19&lat=51.080063&lon=16.989469 maro21 20:36, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
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